Controllers don't work

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Farmer Carol
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Re: Controllers don't work

Post by Farmer Carol »

Your wheel is the Logitech Driving Force GT correct? If so then I know for sure that that wheel works as I used to have one myself (on my old PC without Ian's software) I inherited the software when I took over using this PC when Ian bought a workstation for himself. I can't remember but is there a PC/Xbox switch on this set? I know there is on my joystick and having that in the wrong position causes all kinds of problems.
I'm clutching at straws now as I don't really understand why your wheel doesn't work in the game when I know for sure that the DFGT wheel does in fact work without any issues.

Carol. x
Married to "Farmer Bob" aka Ian
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Griphos
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Re: Controllers don't work

Post by Griphos »

Yeah, that's the one. I don't think there's a switch of any kind (that I know of) but I'll research it a bit to see. I can't figure it out either. Others with the same wheel have the same problem, but not everyone does.

I did more troubleshooting today. I tried it with NOTHING else plugged in. I tried it with the Logitech Profiler shut down (I usually run it in the background all the time).

The weird thing is that when I try to map the pedal, pushing on it does nothing. It isn't recognized until I release it, so it's as if the axis isn't being recognized, only the terminus of the pot. So, it's sort of like it's a button, I think. This explains why the throttle is either on or off, not modulated. It's the same if I try to map the brake pedal. It only recognizes the input on release. I can map either by pushing on both at the same time, but it makes no difference in behavior in the game. Still all on or all off for both gas and brake (forward and reverse).

It's both encouraging and frustrating to know that this brand and model wheel work correctly for many. But I sure can't figure out why mine (and some other's) doesn't.
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Farmer Carol
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Re: Controllers don't work

Post by Farmer Carol »

The weird thing is that when I try to map the pedal, pushing on it does nothing. It isn't recognized until I release it, so it's as if the axis isn't being recognized, only the terminus of the pot.
I have disabled Ian's software and tried to map just my wheel to test this and my G27 does exactly the same. It doesn't register until after I release the pedal. It's the same thing for the steering axis as well but they both work as axis and not buttons.

I haven't checked this but I seem to remember seeing/reading (?) somewhere that there are two versions of the DFGT wheel, one for PC and the other is, of course, for the Xbox. I also have it in my mind that they both actually work in many situations on PC's but I'm wondering if Giants screwed up when it came to writing their software? It wouldn't surprise me tbh if they have. It would explain why some people have no problems with this wheel while others are being put through hell trying to make it work.
Please don't take this bit as gospel it's just the feeling of a memory if you know what I mean. :confusednew:

Carol. x
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Griphos
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Re: Controllers don't work

Post by Griphos »

I really appreciate you making that test with your wheel since you obviously don't need to. Did you try running a vehicle after mapping? Did the gas pedal work in on/off mode rather than as a modulator of speed?

So if that's how the game maps this axis, how do others get the right kind of pedal behavior? This is really weird.

I do think there is some other version of the DFGT. There's certainly one that looks different. Mine is the one that works on the PS and the PC. You may be on the right track wondering which Giants used to program the controller interface.

Basserlowe (please insert correct umlauts) sent me a link to a thread in the German section, which I google translated. If I understand it correctly (not at all a certainty with wacky google translations), it appears that those who do not install the Logitech software are able to get the pedals to work correctly, and those who do are not. Again, I'm not sure about this. But if this is the case, it's not useful to me. This game is not the only sim I use the wheel with, and in almost all of the others, the Logitech software is necessary. To be competitive in online racing sims requires shaving that last /10th of a second off each lap, which requires quite precise wheel settings, only possible with the Logitech software (not to mention that the software allows me to set up different settings profiles for each sim that are applied automatically on startup).

I started using the gamepad last night. I'm going to use it some more to see if I can get used to it. At least it has an actual acceleration axis so that as clumsy as it is to try to push that trigger a certain amount, doing so means maintaining a given speed rather than accelerating to max speed.
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Farmer Carol
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Re: Controllers don't work

Post by Farmer Carol »

I really appreciate you making that test with your wheel since you obviously don't need to. Did you try running a vehicle after mapping? Did the gas pedal work in on/off mode rather than as a modulator of speed?
You're very welcome and I would do this for anyone who was in your situation. Yes I played for about an hour with this set up and besides not having my joystick to control the loaders etc. I can say there was no difference to my normal set up. The accelerator and brake worked as you would expect (the more I pushed the pedal in the fast the tractor went/harder it braked) and the wheel performed exactly as it should. I also have the Logitech profiler installed for the different settings for my games and tried it with/without this running and it made no noticeable difference to my game.

For somw reason my screenshot hasn't come out very good but hopefully you will be able to see nothing is out of the ordinary.

Image

Carol. x
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Griphos
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Re: Controllers don't work

Post by Griphos »

So, your pedals only register when released yet work as they should. That leaves me more confused, I'm afraid. I had thought that I'd located the problem with the recognition routine.

Hmmmm....

It may be the DFGT itself, then, as you seem to suspect. Something to do with its different versions perhaps. I wish I hadn't sold my G27 a year or two back. I'd give it a try.

Settings on the right are all user preference except "combined axis" I think. I have allow game to adjust settings checked as well, just in case. The picture is blurry, so what is the analog indication on the bottom left of the Settings box in the middle, under the wheel position indicator?
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Farmer Carol
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Re: Controllers don't work

Post by Farmer Carol »

That's the clutch axis.

Carol. x
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Griphos
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Re: Controllers don't work

Post by Griphos »

Oh, yeah. G27 has a clutch. I forgot. Thanks.
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Re: Controllers don't work

Post by Griphos »

A little troubleshooting progress I think. I did find how to calibrate the wheel using Window's device manager. I found the procedure on the Logitech forum. You have to ctrl-shift-left click on "settings' to bring up the calibration option. So I recalibrated it. No difference.

However, I had shut down the Logitech profiler to do so, just in case it would interfere. The properties page for the DFGT on the device manager offers a test page like the one you give a pic of above. I'd tested all axes on this page just to make sure I was getting analog input. I was. But that was with "combined pedals" unchecked. I have a profile that checks "combined pedals" just for FS 2013, since no other sim or game I use needs that. So, since I'd shut down the profiler, I needed to check "combined pedals" in the device settings (which I'd done before just to make sure). This time, though, I pushed on the pedal while on that test page, and guess what!?! No analog. Pushing either gas or brake while "combined pedals" is checked turns the axis into an on/off state, either full throttle or none. This is why the game reacts the way it does! It's reading the input correctly, the input is just messed up, and by the "combined pedals" checkbox!

That's why when I don't have combined pedals checked, although it does that crazy backing up when pedal isn't depressed, and stopping at about half depression, and then moving forward if pushed beyone that, it DOES modulate the speed of that behavior. I can move backward slower by pushing more on the pedal.

SO, this is a problem with this wheel and its software, apparently. I don't know why it only affects the DFGT and not other Logitech wheels, and why only some DFGT wheels.

I'll get in touch with Logitech (and have hope that their tech support will actually respond to queries) and see what can be done about this.

I'm relieved to learn that it's not something in Giants (since the odds of them fixing it are pretty slim). If they would simply program their software to work with regular pedal axes (qnd not require "combined pedals"), then this problem would be solved. That's why I don't have a problem in any other sim, since NO OTHER SIM requires "combined pedals."
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Farmer Carol
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Re: Controllers don't work

Post by Farmer Carol »

Oh wow, at least you are now getting somewhere. I must say though, I have combined pedals checked for all of my driving games as I thought that was the standard procedure. Although I have been known to get things wrong in the past I am certain that the global settings for my wheel is combined pedals checked.

By the way, I spoke to Ian tonight about what we discussed and I was right. It's actually more advanced than I imagined and it's only his hospitalization that is holding things back. It looks like we're in for a very good Christmas this year! :wink3:

Keep me updated on any news from Logitech please, I really want to know the outcome of this one.

Carol. x
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Griphos
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Re: Controllers don't work

Post by Griphos »

I'll let you know. And good news that his work is leading to something promising.

As for combined pedals, no other sim I use (too many to name, really, but iRacing, rFactor2, Netkar, Assetto Corsa and many others all the way back to LFS and RBR) wants combined pedals. Checking that changes what is two axes into one, and why would you want to do that if you weren't forced to by the game itself. Some sims, like rFactor, will force separate pedals even if you have them combined, so maybe others do that as well.

It is useful for flight sims if you don't have real rudder pedals, but even on my CH rudder pedals, there is a switch to separate the axes so they can be used for driving sims.

I don't do the arcade driving sims like Need for Speed, and don't know if they might be different.
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Re: Controllers don't work

Post by Griphos »

So, I had a further thought. I have that CH throttle quadrant (with 8 axes) just sitting there on the desk next to the wheel. On my own Mahindra, I have a pedal, but I don't actually use it that much. Just for maneuvering, really. I use the column mounted lever for setting my speed mostly.

Sooo....I mapped the throttle and brakes to the nearest lever on the throttle quadrant. It works! In the middle of the throw, it's neutral. It's not quite realistic, but it's finely modulated. I can set a steady 1 mph if I want. I think I'll like this better than the pedal. It would be nice to have both, of course, but it's better than all on or all off, and I suspect it won't stop working on me.

Once I got that done, I mapped the frontloader axes to my joystick, and I think I've got everything set up. I need to test those on the Bobcat. But it's late, so that will have to wait until tomorrow. I may even map some of those commands to other axes on the throttle quadrant. Would save me from having to remember which button to push while moving the joystick and would be a bit more realistic as well.

I think it may only be Carol who is still following my controller travails here. I'll keep working on figuring out the "combined pedals" bug.
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Farmer Carol
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Re: Controllers don't work

Post by Farmer Carol »

That sounds like an excellent work around to me, at least it will allow you to play the game more realistically than with on/off "buttons" instead of pedals. Modern tractors have a multi function "joystick" which controls the throttle as well as many other things so using your flight quadrant wouldn't be to far from the real thing, only the shape would be different I suppose?
My joystick does all the functions of the loaders/telehandlers etc and tonight I included the new forest mod equipment into the mix as well which was a lot simpler than I had feared as most of the controls for the new equipment are the same as those I'm already used to.

Good luck with Westbridge Hills and I do hope Logitech come up with a solution for you.

Carol. x
Married to "Farmer Bob" aka Ian
mother, wife, sister, daughter, bank manager, farm manager, cleaner, chef, Councillor, PC technician and all round dogs-body!
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Farmer Carol
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Re: Controllers don't work

Post by Farmer Carol »

Oh, by the way. The driving sims I play are those I inherited with this PC from Ian and as he was a truck driver before his accident it's not surprising that these sims are ETS2, STS and another called Trucks and Trailers (which I don't like at all), so having combined pedals isn't as important, I imagine, than a racing sim where you would need to do left foot braking? It makes perfect sense now that I know you focus on racing as opposed to my truck driving :lol:

Carol. x
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Griphos
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Re: Controllers don't work

Post by Griphos »

I have ETS2. A surprisingly addictive little simulation.

The throttle quadrant workaround was too finicky. Too hard to find that one little spot in between pulling forward and backing up, and if I increased the deadzone to compensate, steering gets too sloppy.

So, I tried something else. I recalibrated the wheel while combined pedals was checked. That means it couldn't see my accelerator or brake axis when calibrating, but finishing through the whole process anyway mapped both pedals to the y axis rather than as separate axes. This is what checking "combined pedals" does as software emulation anyway. It means I'll have to create new profiles for all my other sims, and lose the built in calibration of both axes as separate (because the Y axis now operates as on/off with "combined pedals" unchecked, just as both axes used to do with it checked but calibrated correctly). I think I will lose some fine definition that way. I've created a profile for Assetto Corsa already and will test whether I'm as fast on one of my favorite tracks in the Lotus 49 tomorrow. I know that car inside and out and if I've lost some fine control, I'll know it.

At any rate, it means the pedals work as they should in FS 2013 finally.

It's 1:30 am here now, though. So, with this at least limited success, I'm calling it a day.
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