How to calculate torqueScale correctly

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Fuman
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Re: How to calculate torqueScale correctly

Post by Fuman »

Are the dumb people allowed to ask questions here, or is there a rule against?
Assuming there is no such rule, I would like to ask the following:

Who, what, when, where, how?

By way of example:
I have an engine that, according to the minRpm field, has an at rest idle of 850_Rpm. So far so good.
Furthermore, this engine has been provided with a maxRpm of 2200_Rpm.

So now, based on what I have heard you fine fellows say in your posts is that there exists a thing that represents a normalized rpm for an engine, which is based on the "range of rpms" for said engine, and that thing is called the normRpm, and can be found by calculating [(actualRpm)/(maxRpm)].
If Jens Ejvinsson can say that "actualRpm" is a product of normRpm*maxRpm, then Fuman can say that "normRpm" is a quotient of actualRpm/maxRpm.

As it turns out, for this engine there is a nice, well behaved linear line of actualRpms that divide perfectly into this engines maxRpm in increments of 225_Rpms:

850_Rpm.... at rest, has no normRpm association (I guess.... and by that, I mean I'm guessing)
1075_Rpm with .49_normRpm
1300_Rpm with .59_normRpm
1525_Rpm with .69_normRpm
1750_Rpm with .79_normRpm
1975_Rpm with .89_normRpm
2200_Rpm with 1.0_normRpm

Now, in my feeble mind, this represents the rpm states of this engine, starting at rest and then increasing as an outside force (driver/operator) applies more throttle, up until the maxRpm is achieved.
***Note that there are only six data points considered so as to conform to the number of slots in the spreadsheets that the Swedish Engineers provided elsewhere in the forum.***

And now here we are, with our engine, knowing its minRpm, maxRpm, and six of its normRpms in the range of 850_Rpm to 2200_Rpm.

But what we do not have is:
1. the mysterious torqueRpm values (do we just guess until it fits? and if we are guessing, what goal are we trying to reach with our guesses?).
2. a torque_Scale (more guessing until it fits?, but again, fits what?).
3. and we have no idea what the horsepower is. Although, I am thinking that horse power, in the end, will be the golden nugget that drops out of this box of voodoo once we are done cranking the handle.
4. have you guys ever heard of this thing called a minForwardGear? I hear it's really big in Germany right now. All the cool guys have one. But what the hell is it?

Given my understanding of torque, a child can stop a spinning shaft that is powered by a high horsepower and high rmp engine, if said engine has low torque. But the same shaft, driven by low or high horsepower, low or high rpms, BUT high torque, can't be stopped by a team of strong men.

That said, and if it be true, then I suppose my purpose would be to achieve desired torque values at different rpm points in the range of 850...2200. Hence, my vehicle has "x" power at "y" rpm, and "z" speed at the same "y" rpm.....

The fun will be in the trade-offs that are sure to come of it, such that, you have to choose to sacrifice speed for more torque at a given rpm and/or vice versa.

I have shared with you where my mind is at in this moment, with regards to this topic.
Can someone please share with me their light, and lead me out of this accursed darkness ?

All these words can be melted down into one............"help"
And then I sprinkle the top with a little bit of "please".... mmmmmm-mmmmm.

Fuman
s8080t
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Re: How to calculate torqueScale correctly

Post by s8080t »

Maybe this video and the linked spreadsheet can shed some light on your questions:


I used this sheet to implement the torque curve for my mod tractors and it "feels" about right.
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Fuman
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Re: How to calculate torqueScale correctly

Post by Fuman »

Thanks for the reply!

However, it was that same video and associated article that sent me down this rabbit hole in the first place.
I have since come to grips with the formulas, how they deviate from the real world, and how to utilize them in a mod... The new beast I am wrestling is the " differentialConfigurations"..... can you shed any light on it ?

Thank you
Fuman
s8080t
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Re: How to calculate torqueScale correctly

Post by s8080t »

Fuman wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:16 am The new beast I am wrestling is the " differentialConfigurations"..... can you shed any light on it ?

Unfortunately not in very deep detail.

But if you like to have more realistic transmission, etc. have a look at Modelleicher's realManualTransmission mod. FS doesn't have such things like gears in the first place ;)
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malc280970
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Re: How to calculate torqueScale correctly

Post by malc280970 »

Can you please allow me access to torque scale- hp and speed calculator, it for home use only ,
If you please can give me access it will be much appreciated thanks .. I need windows 10 version.
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s8080t
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Re: How to calculate torqueScale correctly

Post by s8080t »

malc280970 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:05 am Can you please allow me access to torque scale- hp and speed calculator,
Erm.. Just scroll up a little, klick on the YT link and use the spreadsheet linked in the description on YT. No magic involved...
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Zaneboy
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Re: How to calculate torqueScale correctly

Post by Zaneboy »

Hello all,

I suppose that the torque and engine calculations remain the same in FS22 than in 19? But more importantly, have calculations been changed now that we have manual gears in the game?

Kind regards.
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EradicationGod
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Re: How to calculate torqueScale correctly

Post by EradicationGod »

Hi there folks....

While we're on the subject of torqueScale etc....

Can someone please help me or explain to me if it's possible to recreate a RL graph from the manufacturer???

I was practicing my modding skills by editing my most favorite JD tractors to RL specs from JD's official website.
But for the life of me, I can't get it to work with the awesome tool provided in both excel calculators...(thnx to Steigei and Asyvan ;-) )

Example below for the 2001 8400R from JD test.
Image

I can't get a torqueCurve that actually curves, sort of speak. I only get linear lines in HP in the Asyvan Calculator.
I had a very believable torqueCurve set in the graph, but for some reason I needed to put in higher HP numbers to match the manufacturers torque output at specified rpm. Which is 'weird' and clearly not the case in RL graph.

Example of my data in calculator below
Image

Thank you all for your hard work and dedication....

Edit: After some fiddling around I came up with the next torqueCurve. Which is pretty close to RL model.

Example below
Image
Eische
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Re: How to calculate torqueScale correctly

Post by Eische »

It gets much clearer if you know that:
torqueScale = real max torque value in kNm (at least it should be)
revised_factor = 1.3596 = conversion factor for kW to PS (metric HP) so 1kW is 1.3596 PS

Giants uses same engine curve for all tractors to ensure same behaviour for same HP machines. If you want to realize a real engine curve, you need to change the normRPM and torque values accordingly.

The culprit:
If you set a real engine curve for your tractor, it will not fit to tractors using the generic curve anymore. Because by using the generic curve, the torqueScale value for modern tractors is usually largely underestimated.
For example Claas Axion 920:
real: torqueScale=1.6kNm@1400rpm maxPower=325PS@1800rpm
game: torqueScale=1.372kNm@1298...1584rpm maxPower=325HP@1892rpm

The generic curve offers a very wide rpm range for nearly constant max torque. As a real engine curve is quite different, it might create problems in the game based on how the game engine works.
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Malaras
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Re: How to calculate torqueScale correctly

Post by Malaras »

Zaneboy wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:35 am Hello all,

I suppose that the torque and engine calculations remain the same in FS22 than in 19? But more importantly, have calculations been changed now that we have manual gears in the game?

Kind regards.
Wondering the same, trying to make different motors for the 4755, so its still useful mid / late game.
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Dogface
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Re: How to calculate torqueScale correctly

Post by Dogface »

@asyvan
Thank you very much for taking the time to make this tutorial video and spreadsheet. You made a very arcane topic easy to understand and interesting.
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Re: How to calculate torqueScale correctly

Post by ice_boii_1207 »

What is the torque scale? I'm new to modding and want to know every thing about them. Thanks👊🏼🙂
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