Stop using John Deere- I Did...

[farmboy002]

Modern John Deere tractors are outfitted with dozens of sensors and computers, many of which cannot be serviced by owners because of a stupid licensing agreement John Deere forces upon its customers. Since farmers have neither the time nor money to waste on a technician’s visit, some are taking matters into their own hands with eastern European software hacks, Vice’s Motherboard reports.

This all comes back to John Deere’s refusal to grant diagnostic and service information to owners, instead forcing them to sign a licensing agreement which basically requires them to have an “authorized” John Deere rep come out to their farm to have a look at the problem. Motherboard spoke with farmer Kevin Kenney, who described what a typical John Deere tractor service, saying:

You want to replace a transmission and you take it to an independent mechanic—he can put in the new transmission but the tractor can’t drive out of the shop. Deere charges $230, plus $130 an hour for a technician to drive out and plug a connector into their USB port to authorize the part.

This sounds like a bit of a nightmare, as if you own any vehicle, you should have every right to repair it. In fact, that’s one of the main tenets of the Right To Repair movement. And John Deere’s statement to Motherboard agrees, saying:

When a customer buys John Deere equipment, he or she owns the equipment...As the owner, he or she has the ability to maintain and repair the equipment. The customer also has the ability through operator and service manuals and other resources to enable operational, maintenance, service and diagnostics activities to repair and maintain equipment.

But executive director of Repair.org told the news site she thinks that statement is “stuff,” going on to say:

[John Deere requires] buyers to accept an End User License Agreement that disallows all of the activities they say are allowed in their statement...Deere is a monopolist and has systematically taken over the role of equipment owner, despite having been paid fairly and fully for equipment

So clearly there’s quite a bit of drama associated with maintenance and repair of modern John Deere equipment. So much so, Motherboard says, there’s a network of farmers who—as a response to John Deere’s locks on ECU reading functions—has gone about obtaining “cracked” software from countries in eastern Europe like Poland and Ukraine.

This software, the site says, is available only on “invite-only, paid online forums,” and allows farmers to connect the ECU to a laptop, calibrate different engine parameters, diagnose broken components, modify speed limits, and a whole bunch more.

The eastern European black market workaround, as seemingly remote as it is, shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. Farmers—as I’ve learned while fixing my farm Jeep—are among the most resourceful people on the planet.

This really steams my britches after reading this about John Deere. To me that's un-American. What do you think about it?

Edit don_apple: topic moved from "General Discussion" to "Off topic" since it is not related to the game itself.

[Patton_M47]

that really must *censored* I'm glad most my tractors are 60 some odd years old

[DEERE317]

Modern John Deere tractors are outfitted with dozens of sensors and computers, many of which cannot be serviced by owners because of a stupid licensing agreement John Deere forces upon its customers. Since farmers have neither the time nor money to waste on a technician’s visit, some are taking matters into their own hands with eastern European software hacks, Vice’s Motherboard reports.

This all comes back to John Deere’s refusal to grant diagnostic and service information to owners, instead forcing them to sign a licensing agreement which basically requires them to have an “authorized” John Deere rep come out to their farm to have a look at the problem. Motherboard spoke with farmer Kevin Kenney, who described what a typical John Deere tractor service, saying:

You want to replace a transmission and you take it to an independent mechanic—he can put in the new transmission but the tractor can’t drive out of the shop. Deere charges $230, plus $130 an hour for a technician to drive out and plug a connector into their USB port to authorize the part.

This sounds like a bit of a nightmare, as if you own any vehicle, you should have every right to repair it. In fact, that’s one of the main tenets of the Right To Repair movement. And John Deere’s statement to Motherboard agrees, saying:

When a customer buys John Deere equipment, he or she owns the equipment...As the owner, he or she has the ability to maintain and repair the equipment. The customer also has the ability through operator and service manuals and other resources to enable operational, maintenance, service and diagnostics activities to repair and maintain equipment.

But executive director of Repair.org told the news site she thinks that statement is “stuff,” going on to say:

[John Deere requires] buyers to accept an End User License Agreement that disallows all of the activities they say are allowed in their statement...Deere is a monopolist and has systematically taken over the role of equipment owner, despite having been paid fairly and fully for equipment

So clearly there’s quite a bit of drama associated with maintenance and repair of modern John Deere equipment. So much so, Motherboard says, there’s a network of farmers who—as a response to John Deere’s locks on ECU reading functions—has gone about obtaining “cracked” software from countries in eastern Europe like Poland and Ukraine.

This software, the site says, is available only on “invite-only, paid online forums,” and allows farmers to connect the ECU to a laptop, calibrate different engine parameters, diagnose broken components, modify speed limits, and a whole bunch more.

The eastern European black market workaround, as seemingly remote as it is, shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. Farmers—as I’ve learned while fixing my farm Jeep—are among the most resourceful people on the planet.

This really steams my britches after reading this about John Deere. To me that's un-American. What do you think about it?

Old news, and mostly applies (to my understanding) to larger electronic components like computer systems. And some of it isn’t actually caused by Deere locking stuff out, but by stuff needing programmed to the machine, recently Werner Farms 8530’s computer went out and it needed the new one coded in, and I’m 99.99% sure the primary reason is to code in the unique tolerances and timings that the computer needed. Deere having broken machines loosing farmers money isn’t friendly to their bottom line.
Our Deere is new enough but to small for computers (25HP diesel without emissions)
And it’s probably like emissions systems, not great but no where near what it’s hyped to. Remember most news articles on farming are written by largely clueless city people.

[ValhallSN95]

I can't speak about the larger equipment, but working on their sub 50hp stuff is an absolute nightmare... our shop is a warranty center for sub 50hp tractors and getting parts is hard enough, wiring diagrams and software can never be found, and actually getting warranty to cover something is a joke. Plus they always want to send a tech out to inspect our warranty repairs, then bill us for it, and then usually try to deny the claim.

[DEERE317]

I can't speak about the larger equipment, but working on their sub 50hp stuff is an absolute nightmare... our shop is a warranty center for sub 50hp tractors and getting parts is hard enough, wiring diagrams and software can never be found, and actually getting warranty to cover something is a joke. Plus they always want to send a tech out to inspect our warranty repairs, then bill us for it, and then usually try to deny the claim.

What brand?
The folks on Green Tractor Talk (SCUT/CUT enthusiasts, who do many of their own repairs, including splitting machines) have no problem finding part numbers galore and and ordering parts from their Deere dealerships, Green Parts Store, or Green Farm Parts (Reynolds Farm Equipment)
And I’ve never really heard of computer stuff on there other than one guy who figured out how to disable the 3R mod PTO RIO through it.

[Farmercaseih]

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, farmers used to drive and maintain their equipment.

[DEERE317]

And many still do...
Anyone want to join us in cussing the Ford 8N and NH 66 out?

[Patton_M47]

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, farmers used to drive and maintain their equipment.

[Farmercaseih]

And many still do...
Anyone want to join us in cussing the Ford 8N and NH 66 out?

We have a NH 66 Baler

[DEERE317]

The two nice things (knock on wood)
It doesn’t throw bananas.
It’s simple and small.
The bad:
Half it’s worn out.
Tire is an odd size
Tiny pickup
One knotter ties but decides it doesn’t like it’s work and breaks the knot.
Oh and forgot to mention that the wad board is a death trap (atleast seems like it) when walking around it.

[farmboy002]

So what about Case or New Holland are they doing the same thing JD is doing? Or are they easier to get software for them?
I'll tell ya this old world is getting really bad, I like to watch PBS some times and they sold out to the FCC now I can't pick them up with my antenna. I won't pay for cable not happening...Seems like money is more important then customer's for John Deere or viewers for PBS....
And I also heard that some Dodge Dealers are jacking up the price of the new Ram TRS I think? by 50000.00 I guess one dodge dealer had one for 149000.00 That's just insane that anyone would pay that for a truck....

[Farmercaseih]

The two nice things (knock on wood)
It doesn’t throw bananas.
It’s simple and small.
The bad:
Half it’s worn out.
Tire is an odd size
Tiny pickup
One knotter ties but decides it doesn’t like it’s work and breaks the knot.
Oh and forgot to mention that the wad board is a death trap (atleast seems like it) when walking around it.

Ours hasn't seen the light of day for like 40 years

[Farmercaseih]

So what about Case or New Holland are they doing the same thing JD is doing? Or are they easier to get software for them?
I'll tell ya this old world is getting really bad, I like to watch PBS some times and they sold out to the FCC now I can't pick them up with my antenna. I won't pay for cable not happening...Seems like money is more important then customer's for John Deere or viewers for PBS....
And I also heard that some Dodge Dealers are jacking up the price of the new Ram TRS I think? by 50000.00 I guess one dodge dealer had one for 149000.00 That's just insane that anyone would pay that for a truck....

All the manufacturers are probably doing it, but most farmers are not computer geniuses, so access to software wouldn't do much good anyway...

[ValhallSN95]

What brand?
The folks on Green Tractor Talk (SCUT/CUT enthusiasts, who do many of their own repairs, including splitting machines) have no problem finding part numbers galore and and ordering parts from their Deere dealerships, Green Parts Store, or Green Farm Parts (Reynolds Farm Equipment)
And I’ve never really heard of computer stuff on there other than one guy who figured out how to disable the 3R mod PTO RIO through it.

Right now I've got a 4044M that I've been on for a little over 6 hours that has serious chassis side electrical issues. I log into deere, put in the model and serial and can't pull up any information. Called our rep and as of 5 today he's yet to call back, emailed him after lunch and he's yet to reply on that either.

Luckily we don't see a lot of Deere stuff, but when we do and it's not engine related this is what happens. (We had 5 non engine related, all of them being electrical last year. 28 engine issues, 26 resulting in engine replacement)

If it was engine related I can just go through the engine manufacturers let them deal with deere.

I will look into those places and see if I can get the information from there, cause Deere itself ain't working lol It's warranty so we're 'supposed' to get all of our information directly from them and reference it on the Claim.

Everything else we do warranty work for is a breeze, especially Miller and Cummins lol

[DEERE317]

So what about Case or New Holland are they doing the same thing JD is doing? Or are they easier to get software for them?
I'll tell ya this old world is getting really bad, I like to watch PBS some times and they sold out to the FCC now I can't pick them up with my antenna. I won't pay for cable not happening...Seems like money is more important then customer's for John Deere or viewers for PBS....
And I also heard that some Dodge Dealers are jacking up the price of the new Ram TRS I think? by 50000.00 I guess one dodge dealer had one for 149000.00 That's just insane that anyone would pay that for a truck....

All the manufacturers are probably doing it, but most farmers are not computer geniuses, so access to software wouldn't do much good anyway...

Yep to the last one, check out Boehm Farms sometime, he hates anything electrical, to a point IMO that is extreme.
Otherwise I’ve noticed most of the Farmtuber’s running newer equipment (granted that’s a smallish sample size) seem to usually break and the self replace mechanical components and computers rarely come up, other than sensors, but those are probably cheaper than the stuff they monitor breaking and taking a dozen other things with them.