[SOLVED] Worker AI

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DukaSoft
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[SOLVED] Worker AI

Post by DukaSoft » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:10 am

- PC/Mac/PS4/XB1:
All i guess (PC)
- Vehicle/Tool/Model/Object:
Case 1455 XL + Bredal F2WS 4000
- Issue:
AI doesn't stay in the field you start them in
- Single- or Multiplayer:
Single
- Steps to reproduce:
Start the worker on (Estancia Lapacho) field 1 (south west corner) when they complete they have fertilized field 2 aswell.
(I'm guessing they would have fertilize field 3 aswell if i owned it)
- Does it happen on a standard map without mods yes/no:
Yes

This is not a new "bug", it works like this on Goldcrest Valley aswell but it "rare"
The problem on Estancia is that the fields are too close together for the AI to work propperly
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1oldman
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Re: Worker AI

Post by 1oldman » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:30 pm

I have had that happen on several occations. It is probably the spread overlapping the other field on the last pass of the first field. Therfore the AI helper thinks there is more to go.

1oldman
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Re: Worker AI

Post by 1oldman » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:37 pm

You might also like to get the AI Extention mod. It is a helper mod that is really helpful in single player. Once you get it just use 'ctrl + 'H' to bring up the interface.

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DukaSoft
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Re: Worker AI

Post by DukaSoft » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:01 pm

I know theres ways around it :smileynew:
I could use courseplay aswell, or start from the other end or even just plow the fields together.
My point is.
If no one says anything, Giants will just use the same AI for FS 19 instead of spending some more time fixing it.
(I know AI isn't easy to program) :this:

I'm not expecting an AI fix for FS 17, but I'm hoping this issue is better handled in future FS versions.
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Farmer216
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Re: Worker AI

Post by Farmer216 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:28 am

If no one says anything, Giants will just use the same AI for FS 19 instead of spending some more time fixing it.
It is not broken.

If the next field was a different crop, the AI would stop.
If the road (in this case), was just an uneven edge of a field, you would want the AI to continue.
If you had done the field edges before you hired a worker, the AI would stop.
If the next field is the same crop, and ready to harvest, why would you want the AI to stop?

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it broke.

(edit: I misread harvest instead of fertilize. But my argument remains.)
I play on Xbox3 (Which they called the "One" for some reason)
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canadafarms
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Re: Worker AI

Post by canadafarms » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:59 am

Farmer216 wrote:
If no one says anything, Giants will just use the same AI for FS 19 instead of spending some more time fixing it.
It is not broken.
You are probably the only person I have seen that thinks there isn't a problem with the AI. They are slightly better than they were after they updated it a while back but still not even close to ok. They still turn in places where they shouldn't and stop for no reason, so yeah I'd still say it's not right. I would take the old AI from 15 over the way they are now any day.
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Farmer216
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Re: Worker AI

Post by Farmer216 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:14 am

This is my first FS game, so I don't know what the AI of 15 was like.

The only place I've had a "problem" with the AI is on MVR.
One spot where the AI turns around for seemingly no reason.
But it only happens in one spot, of one map. So I'd say the map is broken.
Its a DLC map, so its not even Giants fault.

Your tools wandering into the next field when you forget to set parameters, is not broken.
I play on Xbox3 (Which they called the "One" for some reason)
Game purchased: 6-26-2k17

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DukaSoft
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Re: Worker AI

Post by DukaSoft » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:08 am

Farmer216 wrote:
If no one says anything, Giants will just use the same AI for FS 19 instead of spending some more time fixing it.
It is not broken.

If the next field was a different crop, the AI would stop.
If the road (in this case), was just an uneven edge of a field, you would want the AI to continue.
If you had done the field edges before you hired a worker, the AI would stop.
If the next field is the same crop, and ready to harvest, why would you want the AI to stop?

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it broke.

(edit: I misread harvest instead of fertilize. But my argument remains.)
Assuming that I don't understand something doesn't make YOU right. And I did not say it was broken, I said it didn't work propperly.
Why would you want to fertilize a road or even land you don't intend to farm? I call that waste of money :wink3:

This is just another example:
Started fertilizing field 14 (North East corner)
If this was real life i would have fired the poor guy

So you're saying this is working as intended? :hmm: (I'm not saying its game-breaking the AI)

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Farmer216
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Re: Worker AI

Post by Farmer216 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:32 am

Assuming the last Northward pass on 14 left a small strip of unfertilized ground, then .. yes.
It turned at the top of 14, the tool aligned its left side and the tool ran.
It turned at the bottom of 14/road, the tool aligned its right side and realized; "Out of Bounds".
I assume it stopped itself, you didn't have to do it?
But, lets skip our argument.

What is your fix?
How could they fix this issue for you?
Keep in mind your suggestion must work on both PC and console.
I play on Xbox3 (Which they called the "One" for some reason)
Game purchased: 6-26-2k17

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DukaSoft
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Re: Worker AI

Post by DukaSoft » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:52 am

Farmer216 wrote:Assuming the last Northward pass on 14 left a small strip of unfertilized ground, then .. yes.
It turned at the top of 14, the tool aligned its left side and the tool ran.
It turned at the bottom of 14/road, the tool aligned its right side and realized; "Out of Bounds".
I assume it stopped itself, you didn't have to do it?
But, lets skip our argument.

What is your fix?
How could they fix this issue for you?
Keep in mind your suggestion must work on both PC and console.
Yes it did stop because the field wasn't owned. But it should (in my opinion) have detected this, and that the field had ended before the last turn.

As for the fix...
Well they could "simply" sence the border of the field and overlap what they've already done instead of driving into "rough terrain" or the neighbouring field.
There's no reason that wouldn't work on all platforms, so I'm not sure why you brought that up?

And again, I'm not expecting Giants to fix/improve that in FS 17 (As I said, AI isn't easy). but it would be a welcome change to see in FS 19.
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Farmer216
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Re: Worker AI

Post by Farmer216 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:57 am

Its not that it started into 15 .. it was finishing 14.
It detected the remaining 1 meter in 14 and kept going.
I still say the overspray is on you.
If you start the job by spraying the ending edge, you never have problems.

Your fix would require either:
square fields or AI to drive non straight lines

After the tool completes a turn it looks ahead.
It sees that 80% of it will be in the road, 10% in the neighbors field.
Should it:
A: Shift itself, so as to not spray into the road.
B: Stop work
C: Continue (My vote)

If it defaults to stopping, that will tick off people who play maps that have irregular fields, or those that are tight quarters, or people who have plowed their fields up to the roadways.

If you shift and double spray your own field:
What do you do if the field is irregular and begins to taper outwards?
Should the tool follow this edge? (the programming required to make this work, would be considerably more draining than current AI and might not run on consoles)
-What if this edge is ragged? Should the tool try and zig-zag with the ragged edge?

Should the tool continue to double spray itself until the opposite side? How much spray would this waste?
Would it triple spray an area if needed?

The current AI works for a variety of tools, making changes to the core AI based upon overspray from a wide tool seems excessive.

The simplest fix is to run your tool once on the stopping edge, then restart on the opposite side of the field.
The AI will ALWAYS stop in your field.
The overspray will ALWAYS be in your field.
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canadafarms
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Re: Worker AI

Post by canadafarms » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:57 am

:lol: this guy... I guess in your whole four months of playing you know it all. I have only been with the series for 5 years now and thousands of game hours but ya, I guess I don't know anything :shock: So you've tested every field on every map then? Doubt it, and I have seen issues on GCV too so its not only mod maps, its also stock maps. On top of what DukaSoft has pointed out there are more issues as well. For example if your AI is on a field with a 10m implement and there is only a 9m strip left they will stop and can't be restarted so you have to do it manually even though there is plenty of room for them to make their pass.....not an issue in 15. Sometimes they refuse to start a field that hasn't been touched so you have to start out manually for a while until they get to a place where they will start.... again not an issue in 15. Then there is them wandering into the next field which, again never used to happen either and if we are striving for smarter AI then they should only be working the field they were started on regardless of the size of boundary. Of course there are work arounds but before 17 you could put an AI to work and didn't have to babysit them, they were dumb and didn't have collision detection but they were very predictable. The "new and improved AI" was a big feature advertised for this game and IMO not only did it not live up to expectations, it's actually a step backwards. So reminding them of this for the next game is more than fair and is all the OP was trying to say and I 100% agree.
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Farmer216
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Re: Worker AI

Post by Farmer216 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:53 am

10M tool with 9m left .. it will run. See his pictures? His 26m tool with 1m left, it ran.

The AI is a simple program. You have to be the brains. If you have not figured that out in thousands of hours, that's on you.

If you want to "Set it and forget it" use tools that won't span the roadway.
or
Set the end point. (my original statement)

My point is: You are asking GIANTS to change a SIMPLE coded AI (that works) into something complex that can detect and follow field edges, because you want to do minimum effort?
The bug here is not AI, its the user.
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Re: Worker AI

Post by Guil » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:26 am

Locked at op request.

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