Lone Oak 19

Illinois Farmer
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: Lone Oak 19

Post by Illinois Farmer » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:46 pm

That's the beauty of farm sim. You can play however you want and you see fit. In this case, do what you want.
1280 acre farm, 3000 hogs, 200 cattle, 16 ewes,1 ram, 30 lambs, and xbox one user

Farmer 6644
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:34 am

Re: Lone Oak 19

Post by Farmer 6644 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:25 pm

Again with the trees ? REALLY someone plays on pc and complains about something as simple as removing trees. Lone Oak has always had the same trees nothing has changed , and its not just Lone Oak almost all maps on console have the same . On a side note THANK YOU BulletBill for letting OxygenDavid to convert Lone Oak to fs19 almost like going home .

User avatar
cwattyeso
Posts: 793
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Lone Oak 19

Post by cwattyeso » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:10 am

BulletBill wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:36 pm
cwattyeso wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:20 pm
I don't like the fake trees that can't be cut down or all the trees that are sunken into or buried under the map. I've used Giants Editor to remove many of these from my map to make it a bit more bearable to play. Armed with many mods here on PC like the Trex, the Bruks Big Daddy and a few others I was finding not all trees would cut down correctly or be removed and it was just stopping me from being able to expand and combine fields. In my current playthrough I didn't want to own every field on the map, just those closest to the main farm, however I did want to better maximise the land I did own, and sadly the abundance of trees made that a nightmare.
Maybe choose a map that has no trees, no scenery, just fields.

Sounds like it would save you a lot of bother going into GE to get rid of trees.

Personally I prefer a map to have a lot of character with forests, trees and lots of other real world scenery dotted about, rather than just huge fields.

But then we all have our own personal preferences when it comes to playing style.
I have no problems at all with maps with trees, providing the trees are implemented correctly. The majority of trees on Lone Oak aren't as they are sunk below the ground and/or can't be cut down or removed using in game tools or mods. This to me sounds more like a bug with the current version of the map, and the trees need to be revisited and updated so they work correctly for players that wish to remove some. If the only way to remove trees is to constantly open the map up in the editor and delete it there, then fundamentally there is a problem.

I've been playing Lone Oak with Seasons and it gets really infuriating when you reach winter and seasons locks you out of doing any work on your fields because the ground is frozen, so seasons tells you that now you have to turn to logging and animals to make money. Only it's very hard to do logging on the map or wood chipping, when the majority of trees won't cut down. So I'm kind of stuck for the entire winter period with nothing to do on this map.

Normally I don't touch trees or even take part in the Lumberjack Simulator of Farming Simulator, I would much rather just tend to the fields, grow my crops etc. However with Seasons there are points in the year where this is not possible and you have to embrace some different activities you may not normally do. I also found on this map that I wanted to remove a few trees from close to some field edges, to make the fields a little more AI Worker friendly, which I could imagine quite a lot of players may do, but it wasn't easy cutting them down and removing them.

I appreciate map authors making pretty and beautiful maps for people to play on but as Illinois Farmer pointed out the great thing about this game is players can play how they want with whatever play style they want. So if after a couple of years players do want to remove trees separating fields and plots of land and make some custom larger uber fields for their use that is perfectly acceptable and they should be able to do that. Shouldn't be for the map author to say you can't remove trees from the map, by making them fake or removing the cutting triggers. They should just place standard trees, with the standard game properties and then let the players decide whether they'll leave them on the map for decoration, or whether they'll harvest them when the time is right for them.
Check out my YouTube Channel for Farming Simulator and other Gaming Let's Plays and Videos at https://www.youtube.com/c/CwattyesoGamingforFun :D

Also be sure to check out my Twitch Channel for my Farming Simulator Live Streams and Multiplayer Server at https://www.twitch.tv/cwattyeso :this:

User avatar
this_is_gav
Posts: 502
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Lone Oak 19

Post by this_is_gav » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:33 am

cwattyeso wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:10 am
I have no problems at all with maps with trees, providing the trees are implemented correctly. The majority of trees on Lone Oak aren't as they are sunk below the ground and/or can't be cut down or removed using in game tools or mods. This to me sounds more like a bug with the current version of the map, and the trees need to be revisited and updated so they work correctly for players that wish to remove some. If the only way to remove trees is to constantly open the map up in the editor and delete it there, then fundamentally there is a problem.
Oh give over. Nothing "needs" to be done at all. I'll say it again and again until you realise that mappers can and will do whatever they can to get the desired affect to look as realistic as they can with the tools they have.

Some maps have trees all uniform (and some even all pointing in the same direction!) and nothing looks more artificial.

BulletBill
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:50 am

Re: Lone Oak 19

Post by BulletBill » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:43 am

Actually the map author can do whatever he likes, it's his map.

Also generally the map author makes a map the way he wants not for what others may prefer.

As to the buried trees, having placed every single tree on Lone Oak 17 myself there is a valid reason for that.
I wanted to create a dense forest undergrowth as the real life forests are dense, but also without impacting FPS performance negatively.

However I am faced with a compromise.

1: Too many ordinary/standard placed trees is both bad for performance due to more polys being rendered and because of the lack of variety of tree types to use still ends up looking rubbish as none of the tree types have any branches low down, meaning that the forest does not look dense.

2: To few trees looks awful as then it doesn't look dense at all.

3: There are no other mod trees that are better designed than the default ones around that can still be cut down ingame. In fact in all my years of modding not 1 modder has ever released a map with a custom made tree that can be cut down. Also to my knowledge GIANTS have never explained to any modder how this is even achieved.

4. Using foliage trees/bushes is again no good as the foliage needs to be set at a high clip distance to achieve a dense forest look which impacts FPS performance again.

So all that leaves me with trying to figure out best to achieve what I want the forests to look like with only the default trees and foliage to achieve this goal, and having to keep FPS performance and optimization in mind.

I appreciate your frustration and agree it would be great to have a better solution but unless you can show me a realistic looking deciduous forest that looks dense ingame both up close and from a far distance away, and is good for performance, and that you can cut down with ease, within Farm Sim, then this is just one of those compromises that is part of the game.

Illinois Farmer
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: Lone Oak 19

Post by Illinois Farmer » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:45 am

For the record, I don't have any problems with the trees. I think they look great. I appreciate your work on the map bullet bill and really happy you let oxygendavid convert. I really enjoy it. I'm sorry, I cut down some trees.
1280 acre farm, 3000 hogs, 200 cattle, 16 ewes,1 ram, 30 lambs, and xbox one user

Tylercheesey1986
Posts: 994
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:04 am
Location: Central West, NSW Australia

Re: Lone Oak 19

Post by Tylercheesey1986 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:33 am

No wonder BB wont mod for 19,
Buried trees can sometimes be a nuisance, however I have always liked how BB uses them to create undergrowth, it is the only way to get a realistic looking forest IMO.
I have not yet found a tree I couldn't get rid of with the TRex, I have cleared a lot of the buried trees that were in the way of my newly made roads through the forest. Never did any stumps get stuck under map and prevent terraforming.
@cwattyeso, yes you are entitled to your opinion but if you have such a big problem with lone oaks trees may I suggest you find somewhere else to farm, flatmap maybe?, don't think you will find any trees there
Aussie who loves himself a 7790 JD cotton picker, 100ac was most i got off in one day. (22.5hrs)
Currently a 300 ac irrigated beef farmer with Hereford Angus x.
50-120 head.
Gear-MF i148, 7 disc offset plow, fert/seed broadcaster, harrow bars.
Only crop for improving grazing capacity so don't need much.
Aussie farmer who thinks FS 19 rulz :gamer:
Xbox gamer tag- TopCheesey420

norfolk farmer
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:36 pm

Re: Lone Oak 19

Post by norfolk farmer » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:26 am

Well explained BB and I'm glad that this is how the trees are implemented until a better solution can be found as it gives a far better look.

BulletBill
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:50 am

Re: Lone Oak 19

Post by BulletBill » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:09 am

Illinois Farmer wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:45 am
For the record, I don't have any problems with the trees. I think they look great. I appreciate your work on the map bullet bill and really happy you let oxygendavid convert. I really enjoy it. I'm sorry, I cut down some trees.
No need to apologise bud. Your free to cut down any trees you want.
I promise I won't come hunting you down. :lol:

I was just explaining my methods of why some trees are buried. I'm all for finding better ways of doing stuff. Unfortunately there is always compromises with modding.

User avatar
Thelamon
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:38 am

Re: Lone Oak 19 - thanks for this map!

Post by Thelamon » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:35 pm

Hey BulletBill,

thanks a bunch for letting Oxygendavid convert this map for FS19!
It is hands down the best US-themed map out there and the only map that ever got me fixed to a US farming campaign. (It came to late for me in FS17, so its a "shiny an all new map" for me, that already granted me 200+h of imersive gameplay and I still feel that I'm just getting started building and growing that farm)

1. Landscape/vistas and "open range feel" are just right without beeing a bleak (almost barren desert) like the Welker map. This landscape could also be located in Ohio or Iowa (so no one is locked to play in Oregon where no one has ever been :) ) and gives plenty of room for expansion and creating larger fields without getting so out of scale that things get totally overwhelming.

2. The background and map borders go a long way to make this map stand out (especially compared to the odd hazy "painted kindergarden" backrounds that vanilla FS19 introduced.

3. The farmhouse really feels like a home (especially compared to the "crack/meth addicts shed" that vanilla FS19 Ravenport offers as a Farmhouse.

I really hope that you and/or Oxy would eventually give this map some makeover based on the community feedback in a later update! ("She is worth some love") :hi: *thumbsup*

Some things I would put up as improvement suggestions:

1. Underground trees directly in or near the fields borders
They really wreak havoc with the AI helper - even if their branches are underground. (maybe remove some? Or just remove the collis of the few trees in question?)
I'm a culprit of cutting down the "Lone Oak" when I merged the surrounding fields... :blushnew: - I sure hope Greta doesn't get me for it :zunge: :lol:

2. Upgrade the Grain-bins at the main farm
They feel quiete "fugly" and grafically outdated in FS19
- fixing the animation at the unload trigger
- adding some building space for players to add a couple of extra Bins as the farm is growing

3. Upgrade the cow-barn/ dairy (?!) stable at the main farm
This building feels like a leftover from the 1940s when the 20 cows of the farm were still milked by hand.
It is somewhat hard to imagine to have any viable number of cows in that old shed. Especially in contrast to the modern appearance if the rest of the farm.
- The textures of that building are also really not up to par with the FS19 era.

4. Getting some of the small crops (wheat, barley, oat) and the beans to grow more "in a row":
I actually became aware of this possibility when playing some of your FS17 maps where you implemented that. (I later used that method on other maps as well, as the stubbles look way more realistic that way)
However I can't seem to find the respective parameters in the FS19 I3d anymore. (Must have been moved to another file?)

Best regards from Germany and of course from "Lone Oak Ohio"
Thelamon

BulletBill
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:50 am

Re: Lone Oak 19

Post by BulletBill » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:58 pm

In reply to your suggestions:

1: I've never found it major issue, but then GIANTS AI helpers is one of the most outdated parts of this game now.
Personally I always work the field headlands first manually then leave the worker to do it afterwards.

If I start removing collisions from trees GIANTS would either fail it, or more people would complain about them not having collisions.

2: This is possibly something we could do, however that would be up to Oxygendavid if he wanted to go through the hassle of updating the map and going through GIANTS testing system for just that. Saying that the farm is not meant to be all shiny and brand new. The RL farm has evolved over many decades and the buildings reflect that.

3: In RL Lone Oak doesn't keep that many cows so the old style barn which is loosely based on a RL barn on the farm is actually in keeping with true farm. Again it is not meant to be new or modern as the farm has been there for a long time. Obviously in Fs19 you could also use a placeable cow barn somewhere else on the map or on another part of the farm.

4: This is something that I would like to see on more maps myself as most people seem to use GIANTS default textures which are far from perfect, especially when it comes to stubble. In Fs17 this was more my department but in Fs19 Oxygendavid has been doing everything on his own. But I do know he his working on better crop foliage for his newer maps. As for updating this map again the process of getting it through GIANTS testing is very long winded and frustrating as you are at the mercy of whatever the particular tester feels like on the day. Sometimes they will pass mods with massive errors, other times they fail it on 1 tiny floating object.
This does make updating maps something most modders dread having to do.

User avatar
chedly_farms
Posts: 802
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:05 pm

Re: Lone Oak 19

Post by chedly_farms » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:12 pm

Hey BB, since your chatting on here, I'd like to ask you some questions.

I noticed that you chimed in on this thread because of someone complaining about how you originally set up the trees. And you went pretty far in depth about why you did the trees the way you did. Which is awesome by the way. In your opinion, do trees/treelines make or break a map? Like if the trees don't look real, then it just makes the rest of the map look "blah". And also, do you think the new graphics/lighting on 19 make trees look worse than they did on 17?
Currently Playing on XBoxOne : Marwell Manor Farm, 410+ hours
Osina, 34+ hours

Love your neighbors (forum members) as yourself. And "Thank You Modders" for your contributions.

garyst
Posts: 900
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:56 pm

Re: Lone Oak 19

Post by garyst » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:53 pm

I would love to see the same corn/soybean textures used on the osina map be used on lone oak, but I am not sure if that would be possible in an update or at all.

User avatar
Mobias
Posts: 523
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:43 pm

Re: Lone Oak 19

Post by Mobias » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:06 pm

chedly_farms wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:12 pm
In your opinion, do trees/treelines make or break a map? Like if the trees don't look real, then it just makes the rest of the map look "blah". And also, do you think the new graphics/lighting on 19 make trees look worse than they did on 17?
I'll chime in with my two cents here and say that map makers who use way too many trees ruin maps in my opinion. Especially if they're used as a cop out for not doing decent map borders. I know decent map borders are quite difficult (and Giants giving map makers better options somehow should be something thats looked into in the future) but walls of trees can really ruin a map for me.

Having a decent line of sight is really important for me in making a map feel immersive. That Geiselsberg map which everyone raves about is a good example of an otherwise great map which is ruined by the over use of trees. I know forestry is a big part of the game for a lot of people but having nothing but trees and badly rendered blobby distant mountains to look at does just bore me.

Oh and the new brighter lighting engine in FS-19 makes everything look worse in my opinion. With FS-19 Giants took one huge step forward with so much of the game whilst simultaneously taking two huge steps backward. Thread derailment over.

User avatar
chedly_farms
Posts: 802
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:05 pm

Re: Lone Oak 19

Post by chedly_farms » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:18 pm

Mobias wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:06 pm
chedly_farms wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:12 pm
In your opinion, do trees/treelines make or break a map? Like if the trees don't look real, then it just makes the rest of the map look "blah". And also, do you think the new graphics/lighting on 19 make trees look worse than they did on 17?
I'll chime in with my two cents here and say that map makers who use way too many trees ruin maps in my opinion. Especially if they're used as a cop out for not doing decent map borders. I know decent map borders are quite difficult (and Giants giving map makers better options somehow should be something thats looked into in the future) but walls of trees can really ruin a map for me.

Having a decent line of sight is really important for me in making a map feel immersive. That Geiselsberg map which everyone raves about is a good example of an otherwise great map which is ruined by the over use of trees. I know forestry is a big part of the game for a lot of people but having nothing but trees and badly rendered blobby distant mountains to look at does just bore me.

Oh and the new brighter lighting engine in FS-19 makes everything look worse in my opinion. With FS-19 Giants took one huge step forward with so much of the game whilst simultaneously taking two huge steps backward. Thread derailment over.
I am curious now, on what you think of Marwell and the use of trees on that map. As Marwell in my own personal taste of maps is the crown jewel of maps so far on 19.
Currently Playing on XBoxOne : Marwell Manor Farm, 410+ hours
Osina, 34+ hours

Love your neighbors (forum members) as yourself. And "Thank You Modders" for your contributions.

Post Reply