No-till Vs. P/F

JonOne
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No-till Vs. P/F

Post by JonOne » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:26 pm

Hey,
So am I right in thinking no-till is effectively impossible to implement with precision farming or Seasons? Because I’m sure there’s a plowing penalty and I run into a yield hit for not applying lime onto my squares when running precision farming and I’m almost 99.9% sure I had the same issue running Seasons (including the US GEOs) or is it just something I missed?
I tried running PF on the vanilla Ravenport as a test then ran it on Griffin without Seasons, then with Griffin GEO 9 day seasons and had a yield penalty for planting corn in winter wheat stubble without plowing or lime application before hand.
I was going to try to build it into Stone Valley so I can cover crop with rye but I’m dubious now about even running seasons as it’s going to affect my underlying yield from beans and corn especially if I diversify into dairy where I’m producing alfalfa and BMR as well. It’s a shame there’s not been more soil friendly practices built into the game I was excited for PF but actually it’s not that innovative really if it just bolts onto the current European tillage and chemical model without addressing the erosion and runoff problems particularly with the inclusion of John Deere it’s a bit muted to me having had some time with it and keeping an ear open to current farm practices and near futures from the US that there’s literally nothing at all to address it. I get giants is in Europe but with international ambassadors and each release getting a us map I’d have hoped to see some traction with this by now it seems a bit short sighted in my humble opinion.
Jon, 29
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DEERE317
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Re: No-till Vs. P/F

Post by DEERE317 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:18 pm

Why can’t you apply lime? There’s no requirement to use plow it in.
And the plow requirement can be turned off as it’s not 100% realistic to all areas.
If you want to leave it on, try this: https://www.farming-simulator.com/mod.p ... tle=fs2019
As IRL there’s a reason they’re called no till rippers, they’re almost no soil disturbance (just ignore in game the plowed texture it leaves.)
As for IRL no till it definitely isn’t a be all end all, and definitely isn’t the best for all situations, but I digress.
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wheelmansteve
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Re: No-till Vs. P/F

Post by wheelmansteve » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:40 pm

Running PF and Seasons on Griffin, Plowing set to OFF, and planting no-till with a Case 2150 and a Horsch Evo. I apply lime post-harvest when Ph is bad, and then plant. Yields seem OK?
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JonOne
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Re: No-till Vs. P/F

Post by JonOne » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:04 pm

Yah as soon as I finished typing I realised I could’ve dropped lime and planted through it that was a goof on my part.

The ecolo till is a good point I’m not sure I understand it fully, I thought it was on the lines of chisel plowing which I get is better than full vertical tillage but again I’m not 100% on what is involved
Thanks for the reply
Jon, 29
Somewhere near the River Parishes.
I enjoy long slow drives in my combine, cold starts and red bird win streaks.
Please don’t feed the trolls.

DEERE317
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Re: No-till Vs. P/F

Post by DEERE317 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:27 pm

JonOne wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:04 pm
Yah as soon as I finished typing I realised I could’ve dropped lime and planted through it that was a goof on my part.

The ecolo till is a good point I’m not sure I understand it fully, I thought it was on the lines of chisel plowing which I get is better than full vertical tillage but again I’m not 100% on what is involved
Thanks for the reply
It doesn’t turn soil, basically just lifts the ground as a sheet a drops it, fracturing the hard pan but only leaving a few slices in the ground from the shanks, hence the nickname “no till ripper”
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iw_shawn
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Re: No-till Vs. P/F

Post by iw_shawn » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:21 am

No-Till in certain soil types is a trade off where the lost income in yield is off set by a greater reduction in the cost to preform the tillage.

Drought prone windy area’s with sandy soil no-till is hands down more profitable due to reduce top soil erosion. In wet climates with clay soils breaking the compaction and allowing the soil to dry quicker in the spring using tillage is more profitable.

Farmers will find the most profitable soil management practices for their ground.

JonOne
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Re: No-till Vs. P/F

Post by JonOne » Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:55 pm

True,
There’s a balance to be found though surely, I know there’s circumstances beyond control that factor in, there’s not a one size fits solution but there is certainly anecdotal evidence of the case for no till, contouring and cover crops to prevent erosion which of course is more prevalent in sandy soils and wind prone areas, but these are also ecologically sound principles that can be applied in other regions too. For instance cover crops in the far northern corn belt up into MN I’ve seen anecdotal or moderately measured evidence that there’s been increased N retention into spring planting from an application after ripping corn residue by applying a heavier starter to overwintering triticale or wheat( I will look for the citation) also there’s a similar argument for leaving field armour from corn harvest dormant over winter then I’m guessing ripping in the spring but minimal till anyway to then maintain the seedbed without plowing or tillage.
I can refer you to the Field Work podcast talking to Paul Reed and Dave Moeller about planting no till into standing water in deep clay in Wisconsin ( the episode’s called Mudholes in March so there you go) My broad perspective is if even one of the no till or cover crop practices was incorporated via the PF module, without losing the plowed or cultivation bonus and as a supplemental practice to the soil mapping and smart application of chemicals it would potentially garner traction with a different audience rather than the average Joe who is consuming this cycle of perpetual plow lime cultivate plant without learning any of the damage that impacts on the soils and the ripple effect on waterways and the oceans.

*EDIT to clarify that the missing piece in my text above is using seed treatment as opposed to tillage to dry the soil and heavy chemical applications such as Ammonia which are incredibly bad in the watercourse runoff stakes*
Jon, 29
Somewhere near the River Parishes.
I enjoy long slow drives in my combine, cold starts and red bird win streaks.
Please don’t feed the trolls.

Mwal
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Re: No-till Vs. P/F

Post by Mwal » Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:28 pm

It’s not so much an argument for or against no till like some people get excited about but I farm in the northern corn belt and the issue with trash on the field becomes the spring thaw. With a heavy layer of trash it delays the ground thawing in the spring and in a wet cool spring this can be the difference between planting or not being able to. There’s definitely a benefit in no till but it doesn’t outweigh not planting at all. Im wondering if the climate and soil is similar in the part of Europe giants is from and that’s why no till isn’t prominent in the game.

DEERE317
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Re: No-till Vs. P/F

Post by DEERE317 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:07 pm

Mwal wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:28 pm
It’s not so much an argument for or against no till like some people get excited about but I farm in the northern corn belt and the issue with trash on the field becomes the spring thaw. With a heavy layer of trash it delays the ground thawing in the spring and in a wet cool spring this can be the difference between planting or not being able to. There’s definitely a benefit in no till but it doesn’t outweigh not planting at all. Im wondering if the climate and soil is similar in the part of Europe giants is from and that’s why no till isn’t prominent in the game.
Cover crops have similar issues. Either last year or 19 family of the Farmer across the road planted rye the winter before, and we had a wet spring. Not sure if they ever got a crop in on some fields that year as the cover crop held moisture on the soil, preventing it from being killed due to the mud, and cover crop kept growing so held moisture in better and rapidly started a tail chasing loop. Needless to say they no longer cover crop.
And no fall tillage can have issues with corn stubble (especially with chopping heads or chopped stalks) washing away into ditches/yards/roads/no longer field organic matter, while excessive tillage can replace those corn stalks with top soil.
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blue_painted
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Re: No-till Vs. P/F

Post by blue_painted » Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:11 pm

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