170 Hours and It's Over

ipodule
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:40 am

Re: 170 Hours and It's Over

Post by ipodule » Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:30 pm

this_is_gav wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:13 pm
GIANTS engine isn't the limitation - the possibilities are endless - the limitation is the system or abilities of those tasked with evolving it - and as I've said numerous times, they've had senior programming jobs advertised for as long as I can remember, but for whatever reason are unable to fill them.
No dude, it's a bad engine..... it's just terrible. The lighting, the textures, the shadows... it just looks bad especially when you use a game with atmospherics, haze, particle systems, dynamic weather and wind effects, destructible scenery..... a wooden fence is FS22 is made from Vibranium according to Giants world theory of things. As I have written, the protentional is enormous, the skill, the tools, the willingness.... don't exist in Giants world. Video games are about, in simulation terms, creating a world that allows you to suspend disbelief, push some boundaries, imagine the impossible. FS22 gives you 4 deer that teleport into your view and run through walls. Guess their budget didn't quite stretch to rabbits, or foxes, or owls......

User avatar
this_is_gav
Posts: 1724
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: 170 Hours and It's Over

Post by this_is_gav » Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:49 pm

90% of what you've listed isn't the engine, it's the way they've chosen to implement such settings. If you'd seen the GamesCom footage you'd be relieved they tuned what they did...

What remains might be fixed by switching to a new engine, plus some other things besides (I'm thinking physics based rather than graphics) but then you'd have to redo half the engine again anyway, reimplementing features they've spent the last 10 years implementing and probably breaking areas in a new or the same way.

The phrase "use a new engine" has been around since the FS2013 days, and while the game has improved immeasurably since then the simplicity of the argument for a new engine hasn't.

Anyone here knows I'm passionate for a new and improved FS, but starting from zero would only mean similar mistakes would likely be made only we'd have to wait longer for them as the timeframe would be well beyond the scope of the usual 2-3 year cycle FS has, and by the time any game on the new engine would be released it would be old anyway.

ipodule
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:40 am

Re: 170 Hours and It's Over

Post by ipodule » Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:23 am

this_is_gav wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:49 pm
Anyone here knows I'm passionate for a new and improved FS, but starting from zero would only mean similar mistakes would likely be made only we'd have to wait longer for them as the timeframe would be well beyond the scope of the usual 2-3 year cycle FS has, and by the time any game on the new engine would be released it would be old anyway.
That statement is a contradiction in and of itself, you want it to be new but starting from scratch (meaning it would be new) is not possible? This is a fairly straight forward game, on a fairly small map. Unlike, say FS2020, the tractors have no meaningful difference other than how much weight they can pull. There is no systems modelling or mechanical modelling (4WD, DIFF Locks, etc), there is zero technical simulation of the implements, no scenery deformation, no wind, no water and the night lighting is like somebody learned lighting from a 10 minute YouTube tutorial written in a language they didn't understand. If this is 10 years of work, it was not 10 years well spent. If they can't beat this in 3 years with a more advanced game engine then Giants need to stop pretending they can do anything at all.

For me, at this stage, it's all moot. It's uninstalled, it's gone.... like I said, it's over.

lawm
Posts: 1297
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:17 pm

Re: 170 Hours and It's Over

Post by lawm » Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:00 am

No company is perfect, but Giants doesnt strike me as a greedy electronic arts sprinkling decorations on each year for ridiculous gains. To say they added nothing of value is a bat stuff crazy comment.

User avatar
this_is_gav
Posts: 1724
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: 170 Hours and It's Over

Post by this_is_gav » Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:01 pm

ipodule wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:23 am
That statement is a contradiction in and of itself, you want it to be new but starting from scratch (meaning it would be new) is not possible?
No, I don't want it to be new. Well, on paper I would, but in practice I think it would cause as many issues as it would solve and lead to a much longer gap between games. Still, I'm not a game developer, so who knows what the future holds.

That said, GIANTS need to improve the bale and pallet physics and fix the particularly bad log handling somehow, but I'm not sure moving to a new engine would be the best way to go about it.

Let's see how FS22 falls when it gets patched up to a decent level first though. It's the version with the biggest potential yet if they bring improvements to the likes of the above as well as most of the bugs squashed.

ipodule
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:40 am

Re: 170 Hours and It's Over

Post by ipodule » Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:24 pm

this_is_gav wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:01 pm

No, I don't want it to be new. Well, on paper I would, but in practice I think it would cause as many issues as it would solve and lead to a much longer gap between games. Still, I'm not a game developer, so who knows what the future holds.

That said, GIANTS need to improve the bale and pallet physics and fix the particularly bad log handling somehow, but I'm not sure moving to a new engine would be the best way to go about it.

Let's see how FS22 falls when it gets patched up to a decent level first though. It's the version with the biggest potential yet if they bring improvements to the likes of the above as well as most of the bugs squashed.
Well the beauty of all this is I and others can come back in 6 months and 5 updates to see what's what, save games are retained after uninstalling so it's easy and simple to tell if fixes have been made.

ipodule
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:40 am

Re: 170 Hours and It's Over

Post by ipodule » Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:28 pm

lawm wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:00 am
No company is perfect, but Giants doesnt strike me as a greedy electronic arts sprinkling decorations on each year for ridiculous gains. To say they added nothing of value is a bat stuff crazy comment.
What you add to the game means nothing if the bugs and technical flaws undermine all of those additions. Production pipelines means pallets of good to move around, the system for moving those goods around is fundamentally broken. And please don't come at me with auto loaders because what's the point of that... where's the fun in that? They added more to the AI workers but... to what end? Most of the time they fail and if you have traffic turned on they are guaranteed to fail. Progress is nothing without polish.

lawm
Posts: 1297
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:17 pm

Re: 170 Hours and It's Over

Post by lawm » Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:43 pm

Yea I cant say anything in regards to productions. So far not my cup of tea. Maybe lumber or the crushing rocks. I ain't baking any cakes. But when you compare base gameplay aspects from 17 arable farming and creating farms and having AI haul grain....I'm in love with 22. If your trying to use all facets of the game and a perfectionist, you might have some qualms. I cant change your mind and the sad thing is, theres not much else as an option if you dig farming. The way it stands, all that can happen is of they make it good enough for you, and even better for me. Good luck to ya either way

User avatar
StoneTheCrows
Posts: 235
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:01 pm
Location: North Yorkshire UK

Re: 170 Hours and It's Over

Post by StoneTheCrows » Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:41 pm

ipodule wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:28 pm
... Production pipelines means pallets of good to move around, the system for moving those goods around is fundamentally broken. ...
[/quote]

'Fundamentally broken"? This seems a bit exaggerated. If it were "fundamentally" broken (or actually "broken" in any sense) then how would you I explain how I (and others) play with it. I'm not saying there are no flaws and anomolies but shifting pallets has been one of the things I've most enjoyed.

I get that even small things can break the immersion for some people - so I understand why it makes you angry. But that's more about your personal experience of the game than about the game itself.

DEERE318
Posts: 407
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:05 pm

Re: 170 Hours and It's Over

Post by DEERE318 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:58 pm

this_is_gav wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:01 pm
ipodule wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:23 am
That statement is a contradiction in and of itself, you want it to be new but starting from scratch (meaning it would be new) is not possible?
No, I don't want it to be new. Well, on paper I would, but in practice I think it would cause as many issues as it would solve and lead to a much longer gap between games. Still, I'm not a game developer, so who knows what the future holds.

That said, GIANTS need to improve the bale and pallet physics and fix the particularly bad log handling somehow, but I'm not sure moving to a new engine would be the best way to go about it.

Let's see how FS22 falls when it gets patched up to a decent level first though. It's the version with the biggest potential yet if they bring improvements to the likes of the above as well as most of the bugs squashed.
"No, I don't want it to be new. Well, on paper I would, but in practice I think it would cause as many issues as it would solve and lead to a much longer gap between games. Still, I'm not a game developer, so who knows what the future holds."

If the game is so amazing that elicits such defense, and hatred for criticism, there shouldn't be a need to rush to the next version.

"That said, GIANTS need to improve the bale and pallet physics and fix the particularly bad log handling somehow, but I'm not sure moving to a new engine would be the best way to go about it."

Over a decade, and several versions, and the physics still isn't what it should be. Maybe a new engine would make it easier for them to solve those issues.

"Let's see how FS22 falls when it gets patched up to a decent level first though. It's the version with the biggest potential yet if they bring improvements to the likes of the above as well as most of the bugs squashed."

FS22 is two months old already, and people are still waiting for it to be patched so it works properly. IMO anyone that has purchased, should get the pre-order bonus, because they bought a game that still shouldn't be released.

User avatar
mackintosh
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:57 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: 170 Hours and It's Over

Post by mackintosh » Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:11 pm

They can't do anything more than what we already have on a patchwork engine that's still hanging on for dear life on two threads. FS22 is the pinnacle of what can be achieved with this technology. I'm frankly astonished they managed to implement some of the DX12 feature set on this thing. Granted, it can barely do DLAA on high quality at 60fps at 1080p on a 3080, but it's impressive it can do that at all. More and more games are starting to take advantage of multithreading (eg. AC: Valhalla fully pushes 8 cores), and while not every game can take advantage of parallelization, some things can be offloaded onto multiple cores. Doing nothing and banking on continued improvements in IPC is risky, unless stagnation is what they are aiming for.

FS22 doesn't need a new engine, but it does need an engine update to bring it up to modern standards. SCS are in the same boat btw, but at least they have come out and said they are rewriting Prism3D. It's going to take time and money though. Talented programmers are expensive, and there are far bigger studios with a lot more money vying for their talents.

RunsLikeADeere
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 4:34 pm

Re: 170 Hours and It's Over

Post by RunsLikeADeere » Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:13 pm

a little late to this party but…

just went went back to FS19 since 2 months or so on PS4.
Man there are sooooo many things missing on FS22. Especially seasons (and the lighting system) is so much better than what we got in FS22 so far. Really hope they will implement a few more things in the FS22 vanilla „seasons“.

Pros for FS22 are
-the sounds (!)
-gears and gear changes
-better base game equipment

but so far the cons are overwhelming :(
FS17
FS19
FS22
all on PS4

Nothing runs like a Deere!

KailJ
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:25 pm

Re: 170 Hours and It's Over

Post by KailJ » Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:30 pm

Nishma Agri Mods wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:05 am
FS started back in 2008 . That`s 14 years to get this game right and we still have most of the same issues we had back then. So i personally somewhat agree with the OP . Giants are slack with moving the game on . The massive improvement in model quality and amount of std game equipment has come at the cost of game engine improvements IMO. Dont get me wrong i like looking at pretty models , but when you park it and slowly slides away from you its a bit of slap in the face . I know people will say well dont play it then , but i do like fs games , but because i like them i can also see the faults in it and will point them out.
Its taken 14 years to have a gearbox ( the term gearbox is used in the loosest possible sense), its taken 14 years to have seasons ..... seasons in a farming game .... who would have thought that was a thing , it took 8 years to get a front axle that pivots in the middle . We still have tractors wheels that move up and down like they are on springs even thought we have tyres that flex now we still have suspension. On things that are ment to have it , awesome , but most tractors do not have suspension the back axle lol. End of mini rant.

Farm sim has always and will always be a arcade style game with most thing simplified as much as possible to make it "accessible to the wider audience" Thats why we have awesome modders to make a Sim game from a arcade game. and thats why i keep coming back and playing the game because of the awesome modders out there.
I agree that the modders are what takes the game to the next level, but the problem I have seen is that Giants have taken a great deal of the functionality out of the game that modders relied on to make things work. When I say a great deal I mean most of the functionality. It is quite unfortunate.

Jimbob0704
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:55 pm

Re: 170 Hours and It's Over

Post by Jimbob0704 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:48 pm

This is what I mean about topics being allowed to get out of hand, a moderator should have stepped in here several pages ago and calmed things down or delete inflammatory posts as required, it quite quickly gets personal and becomes a very toxic place which to be honest is no place for kids, instead of the usual locking down a thread allowing it to spill into another thread DELETE every single provocative post and quite quickly you’ll see order restored
Owner of YouTube channel FS landscaping
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVa5pA ... kqx5eVXmxw

DEERE318
Posts: 407
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:05 pm

Re: 170 Hours and It's Over

Post by DEERE318 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:07 pm

^ Agreed, as soon as the name-calling starts it's time to close down a thread. Problem is that certain members are allowed to get away with it time and time again.

Post Reply