Where is Farming Simulator headed, Arcade, Simulation, or Both?

[BulletBill]

I am curious as to what direction GIANTS see the game series heading from the release of FS19 onwards.
GIANTS have always seemed to tread some sort of middle ground between arcade and simulation, to be fair probably closer to arcade than anything.

But more than ever I am seeing a bigger divide between Simulation/Realism players and Arcade/Casual players.
Often it seems those two player types cannot exist in the same game let alone in the same forum.

I have two questions:

1) Will GIANTS ever try to cater more for the realistic/simulation players, or do they not feel its worth it?

2) Will the continual focus on the arcade style of playing potentially hurt Farming Simulator series in the future.

My reasoning behind these two questions is to do with the sustainability of the game series.

It stands to reason that the arcade players bring far more revenue into GIANTS, being a larger majority, than the realistic players do.
However the realistic players are more likely to play the game for longer, buy more DLCs, and most importantly will make modded content for it. (After all the majority of modders got into modding as they wanted to make the game more to there liking)

I've noticed more than ever before that more realistic players are tiring of the game and leaving. If this trend continues and the realistic players drift away through lack of enjoyment, that will also directly affect the amount of modders and in turn mods available to the entire player community.

Which brings me to my last two questions:

3) Will enough players have the paitence and ability to learn to mod for the game to fill the gap of the ever reducing amount of modders?

4) Could Farm Simulator survive with no mods or very few?

Please keep your responses polite, and constructive and not turn into rants about other peoples opinions.

[IceUul]

There is one problem with this, Farming Simulator does not have competitors. So where these players will go? Stay playing FS17? FS19 seems more simulation for me than FS17/FS15.

Also i prefer more strategic game type, not arcade or simulator. So i am not either of them. More like farm management type.

I prefer that Farming Simulator should take the direction to Farm Manager 2018 (for farming) and Spintires Mudrunner (for logging)

[Ritchie]

I think people can over think all this stuff and it seems they can jump to conclusions about Giants motivations. I'm not seeing a major change in direction tbh but I've only been playing since mid 2017. Mods are a big part of this game and without them it would be a very different animal, especially without new maps as we all have different views on what makes a great map.
I'm still playing FS17 more than FS19 ATM but once new mod maps start dropping I'll likely move to FS19. I've tried seasons but I struggled to get in to it as there seemed to be too much waiting around in the beginning. Perhaps given more time it would work for me but will definitely give it a go again once it's released for 19.
Like it or not, the game is going to change and features will be dropped and new ones added as Giants try to give the players what they want. This will see some folks happy and others not, they simply can't please everyone. However let's not forget that they give us the option how to play and continue to support free mods for all platforms and that should not be underestimated or forgotten. Other developers might have already changed that and gone down the 100% payed new content route.

[redglasses]

Here’s the problem, there is no where else to go, especially on console. Until someone makes some good competition giants are free to do what ever they want and laugh all the way to the bank counting their money.

[garyst]

Wish it were more simulation. Just feels to easy to raise a perfect crop.

[BreadedVirus]

1. I think they do to some respect, but these days simulation players are a very niche group. Throw in ALL the simulation aspects of the game and let the players decide what they want turned off or on. Most race sims do this very well

2. Yes.

3. No.

4 No, due to the fact that half the sales are on console and if the console version ceased to receive mods, that would be a big chunk of change lost for GIANTS, but I hear a lot of people saying it should revert back to just a PC exclusive.

GIANTS should get modders on board to test the game, release maps and equipment for the game on release day, or even employ some of them. The amount of talent and enthusiasm these modders have for your game is unreal.

If I was the head of GIANTS, I’d be hiring them in a heart beat.

FS 19 is good, has potential and I just hate to see love lost over it. Even if you have no competition right now, believe that you do.

[IceUul]

I have heard that lot of people working for Giants are already previous modders?
Some people who made courseplay and seasons mod working for Giants now.

[BulletBill]

As far as I know "Satis" (Courseplay) doesn't. But "Rahkiin" (Seasons) does.

[TaintedBlackCat]

BulletBill, I really hope GIANTS take note of your opinions. It is great to have a respected, mod creating heavyweight such as yourself asking these questions.

1. Unfortunately I believe the "realistic" farming aspects of FS19 are precariously leaning more towards the arcade style than the true simulation style. This is sad because I really feel that the rock solid fan base want realism. The popularity of mods such as seasons, GEO climates, and courseplay back this up. The rock solid fan base don't want an arcade style farming simulator, I think GIANTS believe that they have to cater for the hoards, casual gamers and children too to make the series viable.

I think GIANTS are of the mindset that "if some players want more realism and a true farming simulation then the modding community will have to cater and provide those elements."

2. I would love to believe that a massive drop in the "realistic farming simulator player" population would send the message to GIANTS that we want them to reassess their goals with the series and introduce major improvements to realism.

Unfortunately though, with the millions of FS19 sales so far I don't think it'll happen. True simulator and realism craving players are outnumbered by the hoards.

3. No, unfortunately I think the modding community will start to lose members (like yourself) if the series does not steer away from the arcade farming style.

4. No way. Everyone loves mods! We appreciate what you guys create, your creativity and knowledge are amazing. I am still playing FS19, it's an ok game now as the mods and updates are coming out.

Unfortunately, sometimes I can not help but feel that it's almost like GIANTS provided the prefab version of FS19 with the hope that the amazing modding community would go ahead and add the realism, add seasons, more maps and courseplay thus effectively making the game much more entertaining for the rock solid fan base like myself.

[pingu]

I have touched this issue in a few posts here the last two months. In summary, I would not play FS17 if were not for the mods that bring realism -- especially Seasons. That mod alone took the game from a 100% predictable farming machinery arcade to something that is more about running a farm.

FS as standard has been all about rinse and repeat. Sow, harvest and sell crop. You could plan exactly what to do and then just do it forever. When FS17 arrived and still nothing had happened with realism in actually running a farm, I was rather disappointed. No surprises at all, other than sometimes getting a higher price for some crop. Hardly exciting. And hardly realistic, because every farmer knows that a new year allways bring some surprises compared to the plan - and more often than not, negative and costly ones.

Seeing what modders could do, I really thought GIANTS would step up the game and develop the game-play part for FS19. But again, I felt they missed the oppertunity. The 'build your farm' and missions has more options, but it is still very simple and arcade like.

The economics is probably simple: most gamers play it as an machine arcade. What keeps them going and spending some hours on it now and then, is trying out new mods and DLCs. The casual gamers makes it a viable business.

The funny thing is that making FS really good in terms of game-play realism and the simulation of 'running a farm' would probably take very little time compared to the new graphics and sound in FS19. There are so many things that could have been done to create realism and the proper feeling of running a farm. And (this is imporant), having all this realism do not ruin FS as a farming machinery arcade. It is still possible to have easier game-play modes where realism is turned off, and you can just play it as 'rinse and repeat' with focus on using machinery and driving around in the world. But the path GIANTS seems to have choosen makes those wanting realism disappointed, and the modders are yet again the only hope.

To try to answer BulletBill's questions:

1)
I noticed that
a) FS19 is the 7th version of the game without proper realism, and
b) FS19 shipped with broken support for gaming decvices.
So I think they do not feel they need to. The game sell anyway.

2)
Yes, even arcaders will be fed up with same over and over again despite 'better graphics'. Also, it will be easier for competitor to create something to compete with FS, since making a new machine arcade is not as hard as creating a very realistic farming simulator that can also be an arcade. GIANTS: you dominate your niche -- take the opportunity to leap ahead even more, instead of just waiting for someone else to force you to do it. Control your own destiny.

3)
Don't think so, since I do not see a trend in people growing up spending time learning something like this. Also, FS is a weird niche game. There are bigger games that can attract modders and maybe reward them better. GIANTS: take care of the loyal modders you have.

4)
No. The arcaders needs a constant stream of new machinery stuff to play with. The realistic players needs the artwork from map makers and the intricate mods for realism. Think about FS17. Imagine that game without any third-party mods at all. How many would play that game at all after one year?

[RODHA]

I have two questions:
1) Will GIANTS ever try to cater more for the realistic/simulation players, or do they not feel its worth it?
2) Will the continual focus on the arcade style of playing potentially hurt Farming Simulator series in the future.

It stands to reason that the arcade players bring far more revenue into GIANTS, being a larger majority, than the realistic players do.

I'm quite sure that Giants will never bias the game to the simulation side.
As you have already mentioned, arcade/casual players are much more than the simulation players in population wise.
Hence, the volumetric density of the income lies in the arcade side.
Besides, the simulation side of the game is already being taken care of by the modders and their mods. Like seasons for example or like your amazing maps.
So, imho Giants focus on the arcade side won't hurt FS in the near future. I will explain why things might change in the distant future.

However the realistic players are more likely to play the game for longer, buy more DLCs, and most importantly will make modded content for it. (After all the majority of modders got into modding as they wanted to make the game more to there liking)

Thats a fact which Giants seem to forget about in a regular basis. If there is anything that can make the same game survive for decades, it is the hard core fans of the game. When you start to neglect them, it will backfire quite hard. I'm quite sure Giants will taste the bitterness of that fact in the distant future. Because they just choose to overlook it.

I've noticed more than ever before that more realistic players are tiring of the game and leaving. If this trend continues and the realistic players drift away through lack of enjoyment, that will also directly affect the amount of modders and in turn mods available to the entire player community.

3) Will enough players have the paitence and ability to learn to mod for the game to fill the gap of the ever reducing amount of modders?
4) Could Farm Simulator survive with no mods or very few?

I think this is where things get ugly.
We all know Giants is heavily dependend on the mods and modders for the game to survive and they use it.
Hence, they try to please modders (at least that is what we have been advertised so far) in different ways.
However, they also don't want to make that fact too clear because it would hurt the reputation of the company.
But they must have a plan if things go south and they loose the modder base.
Well, I think the solution to that is quite simple. If such thing happens, they will either hire modders as their staff or as private contractors to create mods. They have the financial power to do it. They just don't need that atm.
In the end, this is a multi million dollar business. I'm quite sure they have contingency plans all over it.

So, in the distant future, if Giants keep neglecting the fan base of this game and the simulation side of it they will face with some consequences which won't be impossible to overcome with spending a bit more money on. And they can always make up for the extra cost by bumping up the price of the game, right?

God, I hate those unwritten rules of capitalism so much...

[IceUul]

Future predictions to Farming Simulator:

1. Scenario - Giants will continue same way... not much to say, as long they keep they game engine updated and the mods can be easily converted to new game they are fine.
2. Scenario - Giants will go too much to simulation - game will come too hard for casual players, game will go even more niche and will not sell as good as before, so
this means less quality, less changes for next game.
3. Scenario - Giants will go to arcade, serious gamers leave, modders leave, finally they have one simple funny game, like "farm together" left.

I think Giants should stay on same track, but... make modding more easy, make more turn OFF/ON buttons for casual players. Changing the direction can have very bad consequences, even they switch
to completely new engine could mean that mods will be not convertible anymore.

[Sir Ironoak]

It sounds easy enough to put the extra realism in there. As it is in a lot of other games, both racing and flying. And if you don't care to learn everything "the hard way", turn them off and turn the Simulator into an Arcade-game if you wish.

Downside is, that you can't go the other way!


For me, I'd rather have a new game every 4 years, if it was a real improvement and a big step forward. Unfortunantly I think that FS19 differs too little from FS17 and in to many ways the naked game of FS19 proves to be a lot weaker than the "modded world of FS17".

[OlD MrD]

I’m an advocate for the game to have more realism built in. Having said that I too understand that to ship large volume of copies they need to attract the casual arcade bregade.

The best way going forward! Complicated but for the most part just give us more options.
The game is a big farm sandbox so let us choose how to play. Make sure the game supports the moders.

Just have to look at the camera collision mod. Surely this should be a switch in game? But then hold on if it’s a switch casuals will get confused by it. People will complain that the camera goes through every thing and looks a bit stuff when your head is stuck in a bailer.
If I read the mod hub and install it and then turn it in for that map I am someone who wants that option turned on.

So rock and hard place comes to mind. Maybe they should drop the word simulator from the game ??! Maybe it does simulate farming in tractors quite well (no farmer actually spends all day behind the wheel)
Yes absolutely they could make it more real and I hope they do but would they sell enough units to keep the game going I’m not sure.
Decisions I see aledegly have been taken seem to suggest that Giants own testing shows too much realism doesn’t sell, like making all the crop weights in trailers half so the tractors don’t feel to slow ridiculous in my opinion but that my opinion!

I truly hope Giants and our amazing mod community keep up there efforts and support each other on all platforms.

And I defiantly hope you BB keep up your very fine map making work.

[Sir Ironoak]

I have two questions:

1) Will GIANTS ever try to cater more for the realistic/simulation players, or do they not feel its worth it?

2) Will the continual focus on the arcade style of playing potentially hurt Farming Simulator series in the future.

3) Will enough players have the paitence and ability to learn to mod for the game to fill the gap of the ever reducing amount of modders?

4) Could Farm Simulator survive with no mods or very few?

Please keep your responses polite, and constructive and not turn into rants about other peoples opinions.

1. I actually think so! Arcaders tend to play a game for a while, get tired of it and start playing something else. The simulation part of this game is the part that ties players to it. I think... or hope...


2. Yes!


3. The more "arcade-ish" the FS-series becomes, that makes the answer a bigger "No"!
Why mod for and arcade-game that players throw away?

However, if its more of a Simulator, and I would know that someone would enjoy my mod for a substantial period of time, and that my mod would actually mean something for the community that is supposed to use it, that would make me feel absolutely great!
So, I guess I'm trying to say, that I think more people would consider to learn how to mod if the game is more of a Simulator... but that's just a guess offcourse.


4. Since the FS-series for such a long time has allowed mods to become such a big part of the game, it means that GIANTS would have to take a major "step up" in order to be good enough for the community that plays the game right now. It would mean that gamechanging mods such as Seasons, MR-Mod, Courseplay and maybe Contractor-Mod and the type of high-qualitey maps that you yourself is making would have to be a part of the base game.

Somehow, you modders has shown - both GIANTS and us users - what the game could be if "properly" made. In good and bad, you have tought us how great the game can be - and now - that's what we want!