One mans ramblings on Realism

[NorthernFarmer]

Hey fellow Farmers,

Let me get one thing straight - this is not a flame thread towards Giants or any modder ! if you want to throw out shade please move along.

I am enjoying FS 19 a lot - but as i play i notice major gaps in the the games realism and to me they are gaps that really don't have an excuse for not being in the game called a simulator .

(1) i would argue that one of the most important part of any tractor would be the gearbox, not only is this missing from the game we dont even have an illusion with variable engine sounds as you accelerate. if the actual function of a gear box is too difficult for Giants to produce can we not get a realistic sounding tractor . the sound is the biggest immersion killer IMO.

(2) soil . this is a farming game how can the game be called a simulator without simulating soil (its like flights sim without sky /clouds.!) Maybe i should elaborate as i know many will assume i'm asking for deforming soil. The number one factor in growing any crops is climate (ill get to this ) and the soil you grow them in PH levels - nutrition - ground management . now i'm no coder and i would never claim to know anything about making games but i feel the immersion level would be enhanced with the ability to actually work your fields ad Nh to areas that require it - write variable rate prescriptions - introduce potassium / pot ash .

(3) Climate . Now this has been discussed a lot on here i know , and mainly dealt with by seasons (thanks guys) but in a farming game/simulator to have no climate whatsoever - rain has zero effect on .... well anything . sunlight same story affects nothing. many of the main requirements to grow plants are completely ignored in a a game called farming simulator. for me that is a travesty of the highest order.

(4) animals . Animals on any farm have complex needs dietary requirements , as well as stabling requirements and veterinarian requirements the latter is possibly one of the most expensive to most farmers . again completely ignored in a game called a simulator .

(5) vehicle maintenance. i don't have many suggestions here as its not a field i have much knowledge in but the current implementation makes no sense at all . many vehicles on a working farm will push into thousands of hours before being sold on . In FS 40 hours and its worthless ... i mean really Gaints what on earth was you thinking? . do you really believe that your fan base wants to replace tractors/equipment every 40 hours of use ? maybe i'm missing something but i fail to see any logic or common sense in this decision

I know this is turning into a wall of text , but i hope its not taken as an attack on anyone . I'm really trying to provide constructive feedback on how in my eyes FS could really move forward, i also know this will fall on deaf ears at Giants and that not all will agree with me hence the title these are my ramblings and should be taken as such .

NF

[thumbwiz]

I think the word Simulator in the games title is misleading some people. This is more of a mishmash of farming activities. Some activities are implemented with more details than others. Some activities seem more like ideas that were started, and never completed. So ignore the word Simulator and just consider it Farming 19.

[Deadeye]

You bring a lot of great points up there, Northernfarmer. I actually agree with pretty near all of it. In its current state, Farming Simulator is less of a simulator and more of an arcade experience. Whenever I see posts like this I always like to mention the point that not everyone likes the exact same experience with this game. I think that's a major issue that GIANTS is dealing with here. They're trying to make a "once size fits all" sort of experience. As a result, some people are getting an experience that is more "watered down" than what they like, and others might get an experience that is too ultra-realistic. GIANTS is essentially trying to tap into both experiences, which makes it difficult for them to find that perfect balance. All that said, I propose a solution, and I've mentioned it in other threads such as this before. Feel free to think about it and discuss freely, so long as it's respectful. I apologize in advance if it gets a little long-winded.

What would you think of varied levels of detail to all of these features you mention? The sort of thing I'm talking about is a system that would allow people to easily configure how they wanted to play the game. Possibly even the ability to completely customize individual aspects of the game. So in other words, you like to play the game as I do it seems, and would like to see a far more realistic experience more similar to actual farming. We are likely going to opt for the more realistic options. Someone who doesn't like all of that realism might opt for options more like what we have now. Players could also customize it individually, so perhaps I like settings more realistic for the climate, but I don't want to have to deal with soil science when I'm working my fields. I could customize my experience such that I can do this.

Again, this is just something I've always thought would be a good end all solution to this issue. It is simply my opinion on the matter. I also am in no way saying that this should definitely happen, as this would most certainly lead to an increase in the cost to develop this game. As a result of this, we could certainly see an increase in the price of the game. We also may not get a new game every two years, something which I would be entirely ok with personally, as long as support was continued from launch of one version to the release of the next. It would take a lot more time and effort, and may not even be possible. I do think it would add great value to the game

[Eische]

Most of the points are already discussed in the past. More or less it breaks down to the fact that it is still a game that should not be too complicated.
There are so much other points in the game not being realistic (harvesting every day, sell prices of products, ...) because of gameplay reasons.

Let's not call for more realism, let's call for more depth. The existing features are presented too superficial. But the question is, how much detail will be the sweet spot.

For the point number 5:
Sure it is unrealistic. But who cares? Who is forcing you to sell your equipment after 40hrs of usage?

[cwattyeso]

For Point 5 I'd like to see a game within a game almost, take the functionality of say Car Mechanic Simulator and drop it into this game. So periodically you need to actually manually take tractors and equipment apart to fix and replace parts on them, as well as perform basic servicing such as replacing filters, topping up oils and coolants, changing them completely if needed. Would be a bit more fun then just going into a menu and pressing a button to instantly repair everything.

[b101uk]

blame consoles and the fact it would be silly for Giants NOT to chase the console market with a game with a low age rating, given Giants are a business.

that said I would take a PC/Mac iteration of FS every 4 years that was much more heavily simulation orientated supported by DLC's between major iterations, so the odd number biyearly iterations of FS could stay for the consoles market and the more casual PC/Mac markets, after all anything produced for the biyearly iterations of FS could be tuned for more simulation orientated PC/Mac iteration as DLC's, so they would still be making money, they could also use the more simulation orientated PC/Mac iteration as a bit of an op-in testing platform for gameplay elements to filter down to the biyearly iterations of FS.

the question is, when will the new consoles arrive and what are their capabilities, as that will have the biggest bearing on what we may see on the PC/Mac side of things bar splitting-off a much more simulation orientated PC/Mac iteration.

[bossmanslim]

My two cents:

1a) Most modern tractors are CVT/IVT and have no real gear shift. In addition, most older tractors only shifted between a couple of gears and for field work, they shuttled between two gears. Tractors do not have 4 speed transmissions in them where you go through the gears as you accelerate. For loaders, they have shuttle transmissions. The game controls act like a hydrostatic lawn mower transmission as is, which is fine by me.

1b) Engine sounds range from good to pathetic. On PC, I just remap the engine sounds on the tractors I don't like to the tractors I do like.

2) True, I'd like to see compaction and mud be part of the game as the current rock hard soil texture negates large sections of equipment.

3) True, maps need to have climates that make certain crops more or less desirable. I don't think this can be implemented until irrigation is added to the game. A western US map would have cheap land, only grow wheat well unless the land was irrigated. A southeastern US map would grow everything well, but have expensive land with smaller broken up fields.

4) While animals are oversimplified in this game, some aspects are worse, some aspects are better. Beef cattle can be raised reliably on pasture lands with only hay being needed to tide them over in the winter. In this game, they would starve to death before eating the grass at their feet. On the other hand, 2 cows breed in say 30 hours, while 100 cows bread in 10 hours. I've never seen 9 women have 1 baby in 1 month. Animals need work to say the least.

5) On normal, they want you to replace a tractor in 20 hours. With the assumption that 1 day = 1 year IRL, 1 in game hour = 365 hours (yes I know it's dumb), therefore 20 in game hours would equal 7300 IRL hours on a piece of equipment, which is maybe a good trade in time. As I've seen no degradation for going above 20 hours, I just play them as long as I want and don't worry about it. Some equipment does wear out a bit fast on larger farms though.

[mikejl46]

There are some mods out there where they have added the gear shift sounds to the mod with sound files and xml file

I borrowed this sound from another mod.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0PkQl_5sws

[Cad_dao]

Hi,

It's tough to all agree on what FS should or shouldn't have included to enhance the fun to play it. Some ppl like it the vanilla way, just a bit of everything and play it the overall way. Some others would like it as accurate as it would be to the real thing so you could feel like a real farmer. Then, you still have all those who like it somewhere in the middle of all this. There's also the way the game is coded/build. You can also add restrictive console ressources/licensing/script to this. Then in final point, you have the financial/business aspect, where is budgeted the $ invested in VS the expected $ from sales. So it turns out fast to be complicated to satisfy everyone aboard completely. Luckyly, the FS community have modders to help out soften or spice out the base game when it's possible sometime from the throwed ideas we post. For that, we're definitely gratefull.

Throwing in views/ideas is a good thing. Whenever it's positive or negative. Sometimes it will make his way to the top, sometimes end right at the start. Yes, I see flaws in the game for myself where it's ok for others and the opposite is also true. For me, it's not enough to kill my fun playing the game even if it's ain't perfect. As a console player, I'm more limited with mods than PC but I'm fine with it as it's my choice and it come with those restrictions.

To end my post, NorthernFarmer, you posted your point of view in a respectfull way and I respect the way you did it. I'm not sure how many points you mentionned will be considered, but if it's possible, maybe it will be worked out. Maybe not right now with FS19 but maybe for future version of the game. May not be either for any reason higher in this post. I just hope you find fun with the game with time as you get mods and find twist that allow you to get some more realism.

Happy farming!

[Deadeye]

My two cents:

1a) Most modern tractors are CVT/IVT and have no real gear shift. In addition, most older tractors only shifted between a couple of gears and for field work, they shuttled between two gears. Tractors do not have 4 speed transmissions in them where you go through the gears as you accelerate. For loaders, they have shuttle transmissions. The game controls act like a hydrostatic lawn mower transmission as is, which is fine by me.

1b) Engine sounds range from good to pathetic. On PC, I just remap the engine sounds on the tractors I don't like to the tractors I do like.

2) True, I'd like to see compaction and mud be part of the game as the current rock hard soil texture negates large sections of equipment.

1) Your point there brings me to one of my biggest pet peeves of the game-The trucks. Tractor trailers, Big rigs, Semis, whatever you want to call them. They don't run anything even like this game suggests, unless they're an automatic transmissions. Even then, they still don't just immediately start going full speed. I can tell anyone from experience trucks don't just start running away, and definitely not when loaded. Probably because I've actually driven truck before, but the sounds make me want to cringe. Not even any shifting sounds. I would also like to add that some loaders are hydrostatic/electronic shift.

2) The OP actually wasn't talking about just compaction and mud being in the game. There is actually a science behind the soil. Different crops and plants require difference Ph's, soil types, etc. in order to grow.

These are just some things I've attempted to add and clarify toward your post. I don't mean any offense. Just trying to add to what you're saying.

[Deereslayer]

I completely agree with the original poster. Would love for all of his ideas to be implemented. Can have options to turn off many of the more complicated features. Still say this game went backwards without seasons. I don't think its farming simulator, more appropriate name would be farm equipment driver.

[hun3]

Im just wondering if anyone else noticed this? The graphics got upgraded for 19 yet everything looks a bit shinny and bright. I know that oxygen david adjusted the lighting on his map Im sure for this reason.

[NorthernFarmer]

Firstly I would like to thank all the contributors for their input.

I agree with nearly all of you on your responses, Especially the option to turn the realism features off , i maybe should have mentioned that as i think that would be very important .

The point i don't agree on is the one shoe fits all approach that Giants have decided to take . This is a game about simulating agriculture /farming but it fails on actually simulating anything agriculture or farming based in any real way , the mechanics are severely flawed to the point that this is not actually simulating anything in any real way. the Game approaches vehicle driving as an arcade game would. Planting harvesting fertilizing on fields is only changing textures when you think about it- there is no interaction , just a texture change and bam +20% yield.

I would be very interested in seeing the demographic on this game - are there really players that pick up this game to drive a tractor with no interest in how a farm works? maybe that's narrow minded of me but i really do find that hard to believe, to me its a cop out to avoid tackling actually improving the game .

On the flip side - would Giants lose sales or gain sales from producing a real simulator ? id argue that they would gain . Look at FSX . MS tackled flight simulator in the most realistic way they could with the technology of the day . That code base is still being developed by Lockheed Martin as P3D so doing it right from the beginning has stood the test of time.

Consoles - yeah the elephant in the room . this can be the only reason i cant argue against . the hardware is so poor and limiting that this is the only feasible explanation why we have Farm arcade 2019 .

Will we ever get a Farm simulator - maybe not from Giants i fear due to the decision to neuter their own development freedom due to console releases.

I do hope some of this is heard from Giants because there are some really valid and well thought out arguments in here - Giants we are providing constructive feedback and if you ignore it that is to your own detriment and really shows its about $ and not the farm simulator community.

I would again thank all the contributors and the Modders that work so hard, to do what i cannot and bring a little more simulator into "farm simulator "

NF

[NorthernFarmer]

My two cents:

1a) Most modern tractors are CVT/IVT and have no real gear shift. In addition, most older tractors only shifted between a couple of gears and for field work, they shuttled between two gears. Tractors do not have 4 speed transmissions in them where you go through the gears as you accelerate. For loaders, they have shuttle transmissions. The game controls act like a hydrostatic lawn mower transmission as is, which is fine by me.

1b) Engine sounds range from good to pathetic. On PC, I just remap the engine sounds on the tractors I don't like to the tractors I do like.

2) True, I'd like to see compaction and mud be part of the game as the current rock hard soil texture negates large sections of equipment.

1) Your point there brings me to one of my biggest pet peeves of the game-The trucks. Tractor trailers, Big rigs, Semis, whatever you want to call them. They don't run anything even like this game suggests, unless they're an automatic transmissions. Even then, they still don't just immediately start going full speed. I can tell anyone from experience trucks don't just start running away, and definitely not when loaded. Probably because I've actually driven truck before, but the sounds make me want to cringe. Not even any shifting sounds. I would also like to add that some loaders are hydrostatic/electronic shift.

2) The OP actually wasn't talking about just compaction and mud being in the game. There is actually a science behind the soil. Different crops and plants require difference Ph's, soil types, etc. in order to grow.

These are just some things I've attempted to add and clarify toward your post. I don't mean any offense. Just trying to add to what you're saying.

No offense taken at all , your input is valued and i thank you for clarifying as you echoed my thoughts exactly

[BlackThumb]

Hey fellow Farmers, /snip

I am enjoying FS 19 a lot - but as i play i notice major gaps in the the games realism and to me they are gaps that really don't have an excuse for not being in the game called a simulator . /snip

NF

Let me see which points do i disagree with?....... ABSOLUTELY NONE!!!

I've only been PLAYING this game since FS15 and have seen no marked improvement (in anything that Giant's produced in the Farming niche) that made this closer to a simulation as Giant's is trying to market it. If it were not for the myriad of modders who pump some realism into this game, I would not still be laying out my cash for this GAME.

FS run as vanilla is 85% off the mark from being a simulation, add in the mods and you're more likely to get closer to 55% (modders are only able to do so much), but the thing is Giant's actually aren't all that interested in improving this game as they rely (more and more) on modders to 'upgrade' their game for free. Makes business sense, why pay for something when you can get it for nix?

As to the bullchips that have been spread by Giant's in the past about their own 'developers and coders' being from the 'farming community' they don't seem to realise that what they call farming in Europe is more like 'hobby farming' in other countries. I spent the first 18 years of my life on the land (albeit it we only did cattle raising) but do know that what the Europeans call a farm would fit, with space to spare, in the house paddock at home. The piece of dirt that I grew up on was just over 950 hectares in size (and that's a SMALL farm in Australia) and the average size of European farms is 17 hectares....... so yeah, the farming community members at Giant's really know what farming is all about.... NOT. But they are still adamant they know what they are talking about.... I just like to call them uneducated idiots who have NO idea what life on the land is really like and it shines through on their product just how much they DON'T know, which spills over into just how much they DON'T care about the customer/player base but are seemingly only fixated on making $$$$ regardless.

TL;DR- Everyone an excellent point that is falling on deaf ears at Giant's because people are still paying for a 'sham' and realise this when it's too late to ask for a refund.

Cheers