The Field Mission Systems

[wombles]

Don't think of it as a lease, think of it as a smaller payment for doing the work using someone elses equipment.

In other words leasing?

[BigC92]

I think of leasing.

[Eische]

Interesting how perspective can change the opinions.
If you would get a bonus for doing contracts with your own equipment, less people would complain. Even it is effectively the same at the end.

But technically it would be correct like this:
With leasing equipment from the farmer:
contract payment = advertised payment (loan for your time)

Using your own machines or leased equipment from the dealer:
contract payment = advertised payment (loan for your time) + bonus (for machine usage)

But I agree that it would makes sense to only have to lease equipment from the farmer once for the same type of contracts. Using leased machines from a farmer on other farmers fields should be a no go.
So yes, that system is too simplified.

[cwattyeso]

The system needs expanding for sure. If people keep saying they are borrowing the farmer's equipment to do a contract (which is not the case in the game, your leasing equipment from the store) then there should be no lease fee or costs for that on the contract, and you just get paid for doing the job, kind of like how it was in Farming Simulator 17. When the job is complete the equipment gets returned to Farmer.

If however you decide to lease the equipment from the Contract Screen which is a lease from the Store, there should be a cost/fee involved but not severe to make doing a contract unprofitable. You are also free to accept other contracts of the same time and re-use the equipment until such time as you return it to the store, (This is how it worked in game before Giants updated and broke it.)

Lastly you should be able to use your own equipment in which case you should be paid more for completing a contract as not only is a farmer hiring you, they are hiring your equipment too. So you should get paid more for any contract where you use your own equipment.

Also another thing with contracts that needs to change is that when doing fertilising, weed spraying, sowing jobs etc you never get paid for the fertiliser, herbicide or seed you use. Again in real life the farmer hiring you would be charged for the product you have applied to their field. It makes no sense that the only time you get any reimbursement is when you've leased equipment and returned it with some product still in it's tanks. You don't get paid for the 10,000 litres of Seed you've just planted on the field for the farmer only the 1328 you left in the equipment, but that came out of your pocket as you had to buy the pallets at the store. So what the game should do is keep a track of how much product you bought/used and pay you for that as an additional line item on the contract screen. You could even argue that you should get a slightly higher return then what you paid for the product, as no one in the real world would sell the fertiliser, herbicide, seed etc to the farmer at cost. They would add a mark-up for the fact they have had to go buy it, they have had to transport it and again that they have had to apply it. So for example you buy 1,000 litres of seed in game for £1,000 to do a contract, upon completion of that contract you should see you get paid £1,150 for that seed by the farmer as an example.

[Noraf]

You don't pay as sutch, rather get a deduction in the contract for not using your own equipment

[Eische]

Lastly you should be able to use your own equipment in which case you should be paid more for completing a contract as not only is a farmer hiring you, they are hiring your equipment too. So you should get paid more for any contract where you use your own equipment.

Exactly this is the case right know.
You can just use your own equipment and get the full contract payment without the fee removed.

[FarmBoss]

Lastly you should be able to use your own equipment in which case you should be paid more for completing a contract as not only is a farmer hiring you, they are hiring your equipment too. So you should get paid more for any contract where you use your own equipment.

Also another thing with contracts that needs to change is that when doing fertilising, weed spraying, sowing jobs etc you never get paid for the fertiliser, herbicide or seed you use.

The contract includes payment for using your own equipment, hence the deduction for borrowing theirs. The contract is just not itemized to show you that.

The contract includes the cost of the product you are using on the field, it's just not itemized to show you that.

[Crazof]

there's an old saying.. actions speak louder than words

in this case the Actions are:




I don't see an action for lease, I see an action for borrow items.

If someone did some digging I think you'd find that this changed during one of the early updates, originally you'd lease equipment, it was new, then it got changed to borrow and now the equipment is used. I remember seeing the new system and thinking they half ass did it as the text with the contracts didn't change, but the actions did.

[cwattyeso]

Lastly you should be able to use your own equipment in which case you should be paid more for completing a contract as not only is a farmer hiring you, they are hiring your equipment too. So you should get paid more for any contract where you use your own equipment.

Exactly this is the case right know.
You can just use your own equipment and get the full contract payment without the fee removed.

But that doesn't pay me for the things like fuel usage, wear and tear, maintenance of the equipment etc So using your own Equipment should receive a bonus to the stand contract payment.

Example. Fertilising a Field, Farmer is offering you £25,000. If you borrow his equipment to do the job he will pay you £22,000. If you use your own Equipment he will pay you £27,000. Then you can add in the cost of Fertiliser as well.

[cwattyeso]

The contract includes payment for using your own equipment, hence the deduction for borrowing theirs. The contract is just not itemized to show you that.

The contract includes the cost of the product you are using on the field, it's just not itemized to show you that.

And that is why Giants really should have left the system alone, because the change they made has really broken it for players who are on either console or not using a PC Mod. What they really needed to do was add more itemised information on the Contract Screen to clearly show what you're getting paid for, what you are being deducted for, and to help players make better educated choices on whether the contract is worth accepting and putting the time into doing. As it stands now the information we are provided in game is pretty spares and uninformative.

I've actually been looking at a mod this morning that allows you to completely customise the contract system pricing and is probably easier for players to understand and configure to their liking. Sadly it still can't allow actually being paid for things like the Fertiliser/Herbicide/Seed you have to buy to do some contracts, but I'm sure you could work that cost into other areas:



Of course this still doesn't help Console Players whou would never have access to such a mod, as Giants don't allow script mods on Consoles.

[Noraf]

The contract would be worth 25000, if you hire a helper to do it, you have to pay the helper, if you do it yourself, with your own equipment, you need to calculate running costs, and feet/seed costs into the sum you are offered, and see if you still want the contract. If you accept, you get the sum, and what you earn would be the contract sum minus expenses (running costs of the equipment, wages, products)

On the other hand, on harvest contracts, you can get a bonus, if you manage to get more crop out from the field than the farmer expect, you get the profit for that. (Witch is strange, but a good incentive to do the whole field)
You really are stuck on your view though

[Rasping rabbit]

there's an old saying.. actions speak louder than words

in this case the Actions are:




I don't see an action for lease, I see an action for borrow items.

If someone did some digging I think you'd find that this changed during one of the early updates, originally you'd lease equipment, it was new, then it got changed to borrow and now the equipment is used. I remember seeing the new system and thinking they half ass did it as the text with the contracts didn't change, but the actions did.

I think it was changed on the second patch. The same time as you started getting vehicles with 30+ hours on them, which kind of fits with the theory of borrowing equipment from the farmer. Agreed though that picking it up at the store doesn’t fit in with that ‘roleplay’ as if we were actually borrowing from the farmer it is more likely the machinery would be at the field like it was in fs17

[Eische]

Last things I will add here, as some people are missunderstanding the missions system:

1.
You can borrow the machines for the contract from the farmer in the missions menu. This option is NOT leasing it from the dealer.
If you dont want to use the machines the farmer offers you, just accept the contract without borrowing machines. You will then need to go into the dealers menu and lease the machines there or just use your own machines.

2.
Yes, the ability to do multiple contracts of the same type with just one set of borrowed machines was removed. And yes, I think it was good idea. It would have been fine, if you could still use those machines on other fields of that same farmer. But using them on fields of other farmers just dont made/makes sense.

3.
The deduction you face if you borrow the machines from the farmer is just expressed badly. I already wrote a Bug-Report in the German forum (viewtopic.php?f=984&t=147210) section to switch the description. The overall max. payment should stay the same, but you should get a bonus for using your own machines and not get deducted using the farmers machines. In the end you will get the same amount of money, but my requested change makes more sense I guess.

4.
Additional costs you face doing contracts are already included in the payment. This is especially true for fertilizing contracts as their payment is very generous. Even indirect cost like wear and fuel is already included, although not explicitly mentioned.
And I don't see a need to have that mentioned explicitly. Because in the end you get the same amount of money. The farmer is not telling you how to do it or how fast you do it. Just do it!
Yes, I agree, it would add more depth to the game, but the outcome will be the same as you still have to figure out by your own, if the contract is worth doing it.

But let's just do a brain storm here:
The farmer offers you a fertilizing contract (field size is 5ha) for 10000Euro. Assuming Giants will split up the costs:
8000 for your work time (could also be hectare based value)
2000 for needed fertilizer
extra 2000 for wear and fuel (if you use your own machines)
So how does that really helps you, making the decision wether or not doing this contract? The farmer does not care if you use one of your workers to do that contract. He will not pay you extra for this. He is offering that contract to you for a fixed amount of money.
Any effort Giants needs to add more details to that screen is just wasted time, that could be used better somewhere else.

5.
Adding the ability to have more than one contract active at the same time would be awesome. And I'm glad playing on PC and to have a mod for that.

6.
Idea to improve the system. Assuming you accepted a harvesting contract from farmer A. You borrow machines from him and start to harvest. While you are on it, you get a message from him asking if you have time to do another field. You can decide to accept it or not. You can keep the borrowed machines and start the next harvest mission with them, if you accept it.

[cwattyeso]

1. Borrowing the machines from the farmer is something that only has been in the game since the last update, before that is was leasing and hence why on the contract screen you're still getting money deducted for the equipment. Giants shouldn't have changed it in the update and just left it as it was, it made more sense then. It makes zero sense now that a farmer wants me to do a job for him, wants me to use his equipment, but wants to take money off me for doing so. Also if I'm borrowing the farmer's equipment why the hell do I have to go all the way across the map to the store to collect it? Surely it'd be at his farm or the field he wanted me to work? In FS17 when you accepted a contract for a farmer and borrowed his equipment it was right there at the field, fuelled up and filled up and ready to go. Now farmer wants you to do a job, but whilst signing the contract he's taken the equipment and parked it 20 miles away and you gotta go fetch it, also you then got to pay to put a tank of fuel in it and any other product you're going to need, because well it seems the farmer forgot to do that. The Farmers in FS19 are now total con-artists since the update.

2. Removing that was a terrible idea, as it slows player progression and the ability to do a couple of contracts in succession. Couple this with the change above, and you're now losing more money as you get it deducted on every contract you "Borrow" the equipment. It makes zero sense to have to borrow 10 fertiliser sprayers to do the 10 contracts on the screen. Borrowing one was sufficient. Glad a PC Mod still allows us to do it, but Giants should really roll-back on that change for the Console Players, because they really are just making it a painful grind for them to make progress and build up cash to develop their own farm and fleet of equipment.

3. Too right it's expressed badly and shouldn't be there at all. When Giants did this update and changed it from Leasing the equipment to borrowing the farmer's, you should not receive any deduction or fees. You should however receive more if you decline to borrow the equipment and decide to use your own, and they should really make that bonus worthwhile because buying your own equipment or leasing it from the store isn't cheap.

4. Payments for contracts are not generous at all in this game. Remember FS17? Those were generous contracts. Many of the contracts in this game if you actually sat down and worked it out are not worth your time, as you make very little profit when you factor everything. Also if Fertiliser/Seed etc is included in the contract, why aren't there pallets for me to use at the field to be worked? Why do I have to go to the store and buy it if the Farmer has taken care of it? Sorry Eische your logic doesn't make any sense here at all and trying to justify the contract system is working perfectly and makes sense is getting very laughable. Yes if a Farmer offers me a job to do, and I turn round then and ask some lacky to do it in my spot, I expect to pay him so that would cut into my profit. That's assuming you're hiring workers to do contracts, which is something I've never done as again the Contracts pay so poorly, that the extortionate wages you pay to a worker per hour would mean you'd lose money. Also with how stuff the AI workers are in the game, you could turn the contract round much quicker doing it on your own. Saying that however if I could get a real life job as Farming Simulator Worker I'd be very happy as those earn over £1000 an hour. I'd only need to work for a week and could then afford to take the rest of the year off.

Also having as much information on the screen, as much of a detailed breakdown as possible on all costs, fees etc etc etc would be more realistic and better for the player. It may not help you in your example to know whether that single 10,000 Fertiliser contract is worth it or not, but if you have 5 Fertiliser Jobs on the screen offering different amounts and you can see the detailed breakdown, you'd know which one would be the best to do first. Start from the most profitable and work your way down.

5. Too right I agree on this one, we also had this when the game launched, but Giants then decided to fix it with their update. Facepalm.

6. Yeah the ability to accept more contracts whilst doing a contract would be nice. But I don't want it limited to just the farmer we're doing the work for at that moment. Let's have it like it was and how it worked best when we could accept a job from anyone on the screen and move onto that when we finished the current one, retaining the equipment we were presently using/borrowing/leasing. Seriously it was not a problem how it worked before the update, why did Giants feel the need to mess with it? Like a few things in the game they have messed with for the sake of messing and not made it an actually improvement or any better but actually made it a downgrade. I put the contract system change in the same category as the decision to make the animal manure spawn on the right hand side of the pens and not from the back wall, an unnecessary change and one we've had to have yet another mod released to fix (Real Manure Heaps)

Before the update I loved doing contracts. I'd do many of them during the evening hours in game when it was too dark for me to record videos for my let's plays on YouTube and just show the contract screen the next morning as I cashed in all the contracts so the viewers could see where my money was coming from. I didn't believe in money cheats or field flipping to make progress, I wanted my progression to be done honestly and legitimate. I'd do all the like for like jobs. I'd usually start on the biggest field, as that would usually offer me the biggest equipment to lease (borrow now I guess) and would do the contract. I'd then accept the next one and move the equipment to that field and do that contract. As I went the fields got smaller and the contracts were completed quicker, making My Time to Contract Payment Ratio much better. Once I'd done all jobs of a type, I'd complete them, cash in, have the equipment removed and I'd move onto the next type of jobs. I could usually clear the whole screen of contracts and make good money in a single night, which in the early days of a series, before you have loads of fields of your own, was a good way to make income and keep expanding your farm, obtaining new equipment. Soon you'd get to the stage where you wouldn't need to lease (borrow now I guess) the equipment as you'd use your own (unless it was a pretty big job/field and the extra machine with a worker would greatly help i.e. Potato/Sugar Beet Harvests), but you'd still operate the same way, doing all the like for like jobs first.

Since the update I can't recall doing a single contract on my last let's play series, 100 videos, 100 hours of footage and I doubt you'd find me doing a contract in any of it, because the contracts system is such a stingy penny pinching crock now since the update. I tried starting to record a new let's play series this week, one where I'd start on a map in Start From Scratch mode, on Hard Economic Difficulty and try and work my way up. To start with I'd need to do contracts to make money to buy my own equipment, then I could use that on contracts to save getting money deducted from borrowing equipment, and allowing me to build up to buying land and starting my own farm. I've recorded four episodes so far, made zero monetary progress despite literally doing nothing but contracts for the four hours on video. So I don't see that series going anywhere. In actual fact I made better money filling one 38,000 litre tanker with water from the lake on the map and delivering it to the Garden Centre Facility then I did from doing six Harvest Contracts. If I do a 38,000 litre tanker of fuel to the same garden Centre Facility I make 160,000 profit for a job that takes 3 minutes in game. To make 160,000 from contracts presently in game would take you a couple of real life days.
I used to make fun of the people who edited in money on PC or the Console Players constantly crying for their Cheat Money Boxes, but honestly with the way Giants have screwed up the contract system, you need to do those things to make progress now. Unless you just want to go through the cycle of constantly seeding and harvesting soybeans on a field for a few hundred harvests to make your money to be able to do anything productive in game.

[Noraf]

Well, if I offered you a contract to, let's say spray a field for me, I'd offer you a sum for it, say 12k (in-game as the Giant's money seems to be worth little). If you say yes, sure I can do that, and you use your own equipment, you'll get payed 12k.,
If you say, I'd love to, but I don't have a sprayer, I could offer you to use mine, but then I'll only give you 3400. After all you're not a contractor then, but rather a hiered helper. Witch pays less, but you'll also have less expenses (only missed work time, witch is what you're being compensated for) than if you'd been a contractor.

And, if you then used my sprayer to do a job on another farmers field, I'd be pretty pi**, and deduct a lot from your pay, and even bill you for the use of the sprayer.

As I've said before, I think you're rather stuck in your view. And it seems to me that you might enjoy the game more if you managed to change that view, though that is just how I read it.

I do believe that we just have to agree to disagree on this.
And I do hope you're having a good time playing too