#StopThePayWall

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Tomazius96
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Location: RidingTractorIntoBattle

#StopThePayWall

Post by Tomazius96 » Mon May 27, 2019 9:42 am

Hello guys!

I wanted to share this post from FB page by the name Kman.


"I have a lot of respect for modders, and feel that many deserve compensation for the time they put into bringing us stuff to enhance this game. However, they all need to play by the rules.

Giants terms and connditions (T&C) 6.3 Mods created and uploaded by the Customer may only be made available to third parties free-of-charge and not for gain. Commercial use or use in return for payment is not permitted. It is prohibited to sell or otherwise exploit Mods commercially without the consent of GIANTS (including the placement of ads in Mods or within the context of the distribution of Mods), including the sale or distribution of apps which contain Mods, as well as the sale of physical data carriers or downloading of Mods.

I am not asking for legal action towards those who do this. However, I want answers from Giants to publicy state if those who use Patreon, PayPal, Sharemods, etc., is a legal form of monetizing Giants propitiatory software by creating mods to make money which is prohibited by their own T&C. If this is legal than they need to update their terms and conditions.

The community needs to be aware that if you pledge, donate money, exchange anything it is against the T&C 6.3 that mods cannot be for gain and cannot be returned for payment. The community enables these people or groups to continue to take advantage of the community for something that should be free-of-charge. The only thing you need to pay for is the game itself.

Modders that currently do this and feel that they should be compensated for the work that they do should do so by submitting their mods to Giants for review and be uploaded to the official Modhub. A lot of new modding teams seem to be doing the Beta testing / Early access on sites such as Patreon because they see other modders/groups doing this.

To take this a step further there are modding groups who are submitting mods to Giants for upload to the official modhub and get approved. However, these same groups are also collecting money behind paywalls and getting people to pay to access test versions of mods that they later submit to the official Giants Modhub. They should only use the Modhub as Giants intended and receive the rewards for their work. What they cannot do is receive funds for the mods especially since they also submit the mods to Giants official modhub. They have to agree to all the T&Cs not only of the ModHub but also Giants Editor which means everything you create and submit must only be hosted on the ModHub and not distributed anywhere else or to anyone prior to or after it's inclusion on the ModHub. Also by submitting to the ModHub you agree that all assets of that mod become fair use and free to use within other mods on the ModHub either by Giants themselves or other registered ModHub Authors.

For those who need this explained to them I will do so now. Direct pay walling or making people pay to access and download mods is a violation of Giants T&C and Giants Editor T&Cs. There is no way around this. People who are giving money for mods are those who are guilty for enabling this type of behavior. The community needs to understand there are rules put into place for a reason. These rules are to protect the community. Nobody should have to pay to use a mod.

Even those who provide a donation link, for people to offer what they feel the modders work is worth is still considered prohibited in regards to Giants T&C 6.3.

The bottom line is that this issue has gone to far. People should never have to pay for mods regardless of what it is. If the community continues to support those that do this the outcome will be that people can no longer afford to play the game and will find something else to do. There is a drastic decline in mods already with FS19 now that we are 6 months after release. Do we really need to continue to have this decline? Do respectful modders continue to go private because others steal their work? Why should those in the community be scammed out of their money to have a mod that should be available free-of-charge and without gain?

I encourage anyone who has this same thought to share this post. I also encourage everyone who reads this to bring this up to Giants during Farmcon and demand a public response. Unfortunately, I have planned to attend Farmcon but I already had previously scheduled engagements that weekend so I will not be able to attend and ask myself and demand a public statement.

Spread the word so that everyone understands Giants T&C 6.3 and that as a community we should not being offering anything in return for a mod.

Please ask this during Farmcon and demand a public statement.

As a result I will no longer be releasing my mods as a movement to get answers from Giants. I encourage anyone who has the same viewpoint that we deserve answers to do the same."

george.earlslight
Posts: 505
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:45 am
Location: Europe

Re: #StopThePayWall

Post by george.earlslight » Mon May 27, 2019 9:53 am

Giants Terms do not and cannot prohibit donations.
Donations do not consist a commercial model.

Tylercheesey1986
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Location: Central West, NSW Australia

Re: #StopThePayWall

Post by Tylercheesey1986 » Mon May 27, 2019 10:22 am

Modders put a bucket load of their time, skills and effort into making mods, especially map authors. If they give us an option to reward them for sharing their own invention with us that's fine by me. I doubt they get any reward from Giants for their help improving FS and helping griw the fanbase for the series. This seems like the best way for modders to get their dues as Giants is in no way a big business and can't support the huge community of modders so its up to us to individualy support our favourite modders. Donations are usually exempt from everything legal so I doubt there is any more to this
Aussie who loves himself a 7790 JD cotton picker, 100ac was most i got off in one day. (22.5hrs)
Currently a 300 ac irrigated beef farmer with Hereford Angus x.
50-120 head.
Gear-MF i148, 7 disc offset plow, fert/seed broadcaster, harrow bars.
Only crop for improving grazing capacity so don't need much.
Aussie farmer who thinks FS 19 rulz :gamer:
Xbox gamer tag- TopCheesey420

eric21
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Re: #StopThePayWall

Post by eric21 » Mon May 27, 2019 10:26 am

You dont have to purchase beta mods, I fear this is a backlash from the "I want John Deere mods" fans.

But I think modders should have the option of donations

Stevo0114
Posts: 482
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:37 pm
Location: Bury England

Re: #StopThePayWall

Post by Stevo0114 » Mon May 27, 2019 10:57 am

As it says on most of these said donations it is exactly that I feel it's up to who ever decides to donate nobody is being forced into donating, I have personally donated just as a Thank you for all the hard work certain modders do! I don't think it's unreasonable to pay a one off payment to say Thank you for all the mods which make the game have longevety!! personally keeps me interested in the game.
What i don't agree with are the you tube site users that are playing fs who aren't modders I don't understand why anyone would pay to watch people playing farming sim not naming any names but I watched a stream the other night and indeed there are just playing the game and making a lot of money! They are not adding anything to the game so why! I'm confused :confusednew:
Love FS fav tractor Case I h. FS 19 has caught up and is now for me better than fs17
Playing on xbox one x, Thanks to Giants and all modders who make the game great.
Love this community so thanks guys

Tylercheesey1986
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:04 am
Location: Central West, NSW Australia

Re: #StopThePayWall

Post by Tylercheesey1986 » Mon May 27, 2019 10:59 am

Agree eric21 i have never once been asked or made to pay for a mod off any modders, even through third party mod sites. Tbh the only people that ask me to pay for any mods are giants when DLC is released, which is fine by me, I'm just happy FS series exists (way better than Wonderboy or hang-on)
Aussie who loves himself a 7790 JD cotton picker, 100ac was most i got off in one day. (22.5hrs)
Currently a 300 ac irrigated beef farmer with Hereford Angus x.
50-120 head.
Gear-MF i148, 7 disc offset plow, fert/seed broadcaster, harrow bars.
Only crop for improving grazing capacity so don't need much.
Aussie farmer who thinks FS 19 rulz :gamer:
Xbox gamer tag- TopCheesey420

Tylercheesey1986
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:04 am
Location: Central West, NSW Australia

Re: #StopThePayWall

Post by Tylercheesey1986 » Mon May 27, 2019 11:02 am

I would happily donate to any and all modders, I had no idea it was even possible to do so
Aussie who loves himself a 7790 JD cotton picker, 100ac was most i got off in one day. (22.5hrs)
Currently a 300 ac irrigated beef farmer with Hereford Angus x.
50-120 head.
Gear-MF i148, 7 disc offset plow, fert/seed broadcaster, harrow bars.
Only crop for improving grazing capacity so don't need much.
Aussie farmer who thinks FS 19 rulz :gamer:
Xbox gamer tag- TopCheesey420

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cwattyeso
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Re: #StopThePayWall

Post by cwattyeso » Mon May 27, 2019 11:08 am

I fully agree with the first post and what the thread creator said. So much so I have said many of these things myself over the last week here on these forums and on modding groups pages. In fact there are quite a few parts from that post of Kman's that seem to copy and paste word for word some of the things I have posted.

Modders putting up paywalls or using other questionable and shady tactics to make players pay to access mods like using certain download sites and links, to receive payments for mods needs to stop. No ifs, buts or coconuts on this. It's against the T&Cs and pretty much against the spirit of Modding as a whole. A lot of modders do what they do, because they love and enjoy doing and don't demand monetary reward for what they do. There is however a growing percentage of modders on the scene that want to nickel and dime everyone for as much as they can to access mods of really how shall we say it, questionable quality and performance. These same modders are also causing some drama within Modding Community with their actions and other things *JHHG, Custom Modding*

Modders who feel they should get monetary reward for the work they do, should go through the official process of making and submitting those mods to Giants for inclusion in the Modhub, again no ifs, buts or coconuts on this as that is the model Giants have put in place and what modders who use Giants Software, Assets, Tools etc agree to when they have agreed to in the licenses and T&Cs when they downloaded and installed these programs.

I am happy for modders to have additional donation links attached to their works. For the players who want to send an extra 'Thank You' to an author for producing something that is special or that they have enjoyed. As long as players aren't forced to donate however to access or download anything.
Check out my YouTube Channel for Farming Simulator and other Gaming Let's Plays and Videos at https://www.youtube.com/c/CwattyesoGamingforFun :D

Also be sure to check out my Twitch Channel for my Farming Simulator Live Streams and Multiplayer Server at https://www.twitch.tv/cwattyeso :this:

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cwattyeso
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Re: #StopThePayWall

Post by cwattyeso » Mon May 27, 2019 11:21 am

Stevo0114 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 10:57 am
What i don't agree with are the you tube site users that are playing fs who aren't modders I don't understand why anyone would pay to watch people playing farming sim not naming any names but I watched a stream the other night and indeed there are just playing the game and making a lot of money! They are not adding anything to the game so why! I'm confused :confusednew:
So you don't like anyone who has a YouTube Gaming Channel or is a Twitch Streamer that plays games, showcases and promotes game to a wide audience and community? If people want to watch someone playing a video game then surely that's up to that person? Same goes for if someone wants to subscribe, donate, cheer, tip or whatever to the person making the video or doing the stream? You're not forced to click on those videos or streams, you're not forced to watch them if it's not your cup of tea, you are certainly not forced to subscribe or part with any money watching those videos or streams.

Why would anyone want to watch someone playing Farming Sim? Because the game has an audience and a community who enjoy doing such a thing. I could ask the same thing about why would someone want to watch someone playing Fortnite? Call of Duty? World of Warcraft? Fifa? Flight Simulator? Truck Simulator? or any other game you name. The reason is because their are people who like those games, and like watching other people playing those games when maybe they are not in a position to play themselves.

They are not adding anything to the game? Really, so again providing advertising for Giants, promoting the game to people, therefore potentially making people buy the game and further expand the community as well as Giants bank balance, which allows them to keep developing and making more games in the series, is something you don't consider adding to it? Also for quite a lot of people they watch videos like this to learn how to do things and play the game themselves, they use the videos as a guide. So I think you'rte quite wrong on YouTubers or Streamers not adding anything to the game. They may not be modders, but many of them showcase the work that modders make a produce. That map they are playing on, where did that come from? That tractor they are driving, who made that? so you see videos and streams are quite useful.
Check out my YouTube Channel for Farming Simulator and other Gaming Let's Plays and Videos at https://www.youtube.com/c/CwattyesoGamingforFun :D

Also be sure to check out my Twitch Channel for my Farming Simulator Live Streams and Multiplayer Server at https://www.twitch.tv/cwattyeso :this:

Stegei
GIANTS Software | CTO
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Re: #StopThePayWall

Post by Stegei » Mon May 27, 2019 11:43 am

Putting a mod behind a pay wall (i.e. a player needs to pay money in order to get access to the mod) is a clear violation of our T&C and we are strictly against this. It doesn't matter if you call it buying the mod or try to name it "donation" while it is not a true donation.

Real donations or ads on the website is a different story. While it is technically not allowed by the T&C if it happens in the context of the distribution of the mod, we currently don't try to enforce this as long as it is done in a "non-commercial" way that is also not affecting the user experience.

Showing the game on Youtube/Twitch etc. is again a different story. For those cases we explicitly allow the monetisation, see https://farming-simulator.com/youtube.php

Stevo0114
Posts: 482
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Location: Bury England

Re: #StopThePayWall

Post by Stevo0114 » Mon May 27, 2019 11:57 am

cwattyeso wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 11:21 am
Stevo0114 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 10:57 am
What i don't agree with are the you tube site users that are playing fs who aren't modders I don't understand why anyone would pay to watch people playing farming sim not naming any names but I watched a stream the other night and indeed there are just playing the game and making a lot of money! They are not adding anything to the game so why! I'm confused :confusednew:
So you don't like anyone who has a YouTube Gaming Channel or is a Twitch Streamer that plays games, showcases and promotes game to a wide audience and community? If people want to watch someone playing a video game then surely that's up to that person? Same goes for if someone wants to subscribe, donate, cheer, tip or whatever to the person making the video or doing the stream? You're not forced to click on those videos or streams, you're not forced to watch them if it's not your cup of tea, you are certainly not forced to subscribe or part with any money watching those videos or streams.

Why would anyone want to watch someone playing Farming Sim? Because the game has an audience and a community who enjoy doing such a thing. I could ask the same thing about why would someone want to watch someone playing Fortnite? Call of Duty? World of Warcraft? Fifa? Flight Simulator? Truck Simulator? or any other game you name. The reason is because their are people who like those games, and like watching other people playing those games when maybe they are not in a position to play themselves.

They are not adding anything to the game? Really, so again providing advertising for Giants, promoting the game to people, therefore potentially making people buy the game and further expand the community as well as Giants bank balance, which allows them to keep developing and making more games in the series, is something you don't consider adding to it? Also for quite a lot of people they watch videos like this to learn how to do things and play the game themselves, they use the videos as a guide. So I think you'rte quite wrong on YouTubers or Streamers not adding anything to the game. They may not be modders, but many of them showcase the work that modders make a produce. That map they are playing on, where did that come from? That tractor they are driving, who made that? so you see videos and streams are quite useful.
I didn't I didn't like just didn't understand why but I stand corrected
Love FS fav tractor Case I h. FS 19 has caught up and is now for me better than fs17
Playing on xbox one x, Thanks to Giants and all modders who make the game great.
Love this community so thanks guys

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Tomazius96
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Location: RidingTractorIntoBattle

Re: #StopThePayWall

Post by Tomazius96 » Mon May 27, 2019 12:02 pm

Thank you for the official clarification @Stegei.

Tylercheesey1986
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:04 am
Location: Central West, NSW Australia

Re: #StopThePayWall

Post by Tylercheesey1986 » Mon May 27, 2019 1:10 pm

Yes i think it modders should only put there mods on giants official modhub, giants created game and editing tools so it is ultimately giants property, if modders want to recieve a bit of a reward I'm sure a "donate to mod author" option could be implemented somehow. Anyway if the modder is proud of their work and want to share it makes sense to do it via the modhub as that surely has the largest userbase
Aussie who loves himself a 7790 JD cotton picker, 100ac was most i got off in one day. (22.5hrs)
Currently a 300 ac irrigated beef farmer with Hereford Angus x.
50-120 head.
Gear-MF i148, 7 disc offset plow, fert/seed broadcaster, harrow bars.
Only crop for improving grazing capacity so don't need much.
Aussie farmer who thinks FS 19 rulz :gamer:
Xbox gamer tag- TopCheesey420

Tylercheesey1986
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:04 am
Location: Central West, NSW Australia

Re: #StopThePayWall

Post by Tylercheesey1986 » Mon May 27, 2019 1:22 pm

BTW cwattyeso I'm a farm sim video addict I watch as many streamers/youtubers as I can, normally while playing at same time, on new maps i usually do a simultaneous first look with bid of same map, yours are more PC so most the time they just make me jealous but still, love the work! Ppl like you, goham, sealyp, klien all make cool vids. some do more of this or that, that some ppl may or may not like but the good news is that because y'aaaaall do what you do, there is something for everyone in the FS fanbase
Aussie who loves himself a 7790 JD cotton picker, 100ac was most i got off in one day. (22.5hrs)
Currently a 300 ac irrigated beef farmer with Hereford Angus x.
50-120 head.
Gear-MF i148, 7 disc offset plow, fert/seed broadcaster, harrow bars.
Only crop for improving grazing capacity so don't need much.
Aussie farmer who thinks FS 19 rulz :gamer:
Xbox gamer tag- TopCheesey420

FarmBoss
Posts: 487
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 11:45 am

Re: #StopThePayWall

Post by FarmBoss » Mon May 27, 2019 1:57 pm

You say "People should never have to pay for mods regardless of what it is". Well, they don't have to. Even if it's called a donation, they still don't have to. Nobody is out there twisting arms. if payment is required, and I don't want to pay, then I'll move along, there are plenty of mods out there. If payment is required, and I'm willing to pay, then that's my business.
Giants requires payment for some dlc, which is really only a mod.

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