Longer development

Add years to the development cycle

Keep 2 year cycle
27
25%
Make it a 3 year cycle
48
45%
Make it a 4 year cycle
27
25%
Longer
5
5%
 
Total votes: 107

livesea72
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Re: Longer development

Post by livesea72 »

Miketeg wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:49 pm
Tomazius96 wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:31 pm What about developing concept such as SCS software uses for the development of ETS2/ATS ? They are constantly developing, improving, addding new features. You buy base game, they keep updating it in lets say 3-5 moths periods. And finance they companies with different DLCs and expansions.
SCS is the best gaming company, period.

They have one of the best support forum, they listen to their player and they are really active on social platform.

They took the perfect direction by developping a game that can be improved for YEARS and decade!

This is how they made their name, but they are the only one using this strategy !
Have to disagree with best company at least when i had 18 wheels of steel American long haul was concerned. There was a bug when hiring drivers that would crash the game that existed for years that was patched by a player. It was random crash so it was hard to isolate but was ignored by scs.
FS13 xbox360/ FS15 ps4/xbox one/ FS17 xbox one/ps4pro platinum trophy /FS19 ps4pro platinum trophy/ FS 22 PC
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Tomazius96
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Re: Longer development

Post by Tomazius96 »

livesea72 wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:30 am
Miketeg wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:49 pm
Tomazius96 wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:31 pm What about developing concept such as SCS software uses for the development of ETS2/ATS ? They are constantly developing, improving, addding new features. You buy base game, they keep updating it in lets say 3-5 moths periods. And finance they companies with different DLCs and expansions.
SCS is the best gaming company, period.

They have one of the best support forum, they listen to their player and they are really active on social platform.

They took the perfect direction by developping a game that can be improved for YEARS and decade!

This is how they made their name, but they are the only one using this strategy !
Have to disagree with best company at least when i had 18 wheels of steel American long haul was concerned. There was a bug when hiring drivers that would crash the game that existed for years that was patched by a player. It was random crash so it was hard to isolate but was ignored by scs.
Well thats quite some time ago when this game was actual. I think they improved drastically. There is almost always beta test for public every patch, to polish out all the bugs with ETS/ATS.
glamdring27
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Re: Longer development

Post by glamdring27 »

Depends entirely what would be done in the extra time. If it's just an endless pursuit of graphics perfection then I wouldn't care. FS13 had good enough graphics for me for a simulation game. Some of the ideas introduced in FS19 are interesting and would be good if further developed to focus on the actual farming aspect - e.g. the different start options are nice, but they just don't work well with most mod maps, which is what most of us play after the first few months.

The default game animal pens are garbage - hundreds of sheep or cows penned in a tiny fenced area. Many mod maps manage to have areas where animals are actually in fields, but only if you choose the New Farmer start because if you choose the others those better animal pens are removed and you can't place yourself like that. If the animal pens remained, but had to be bought like land in start from scratch mode it would work much better. If Giants would focus on making animals more interesting with having them in actual fields, being able to move them around different fields, etc, etc, I'd happily wait for that. If they just improve graphics and make a bunch of new machinery that could be better done as mods then it doesn't really matter what the cycle is, it's still a big let down come the release.
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Shuffy
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Re: Longer development

Post by Shuffy »

redglasses wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:11 pm
Shuffy wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:48 pm 3 years seems about right its about 2 years into the game that the modders bring out the magic .. then the next game comes out and they have to do it all again .. i just hope they dont re-do the whole engine again for 21 ... just make it better ... the new engine is awesome the new fx are great ... just hope they continue to improve it ... also as said above ... the devs only no this answer really .. i mean can we really argue with there plans ... they always work .. and never fail ... :hi:
They didn’t make a new game engine, they simply patched it. At this point they’re just putting bandages on a gunshot wound.
either way a lot of work .. viewtopic.php?t=124431
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IceUul
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Re: Longer development

Post by IceUul »

Giants has only upgraded and improved they own made engine since first FS game, they have not made a complete new engine.
This 2 year cycle also would not allow it, working out completely new engine would need too much time.

Biggest problem, Giants does not care about they reputation, first FS19 was launched, the steam reviews were mostly negative. Now after
last patch they are very positive, this means that finally people has finished the testing and fixing game for Giants, but Giants should fix they game
before release, not after. The game got really negative reviews after launch, but now the reviews are mostly positive. I want to say
that better reviews means better sales. Everybody remember how angry were people after FS19 launch here, so many negative posts.

This 2 year cycle means that 1/4 of this time, Giants use to fix the game and then jump to another broken game. Really not player friendly!
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this_is_gav
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Re: Longer development

Post by this_is_gav »

FS19 was a one-off as far as I remember regarding the unfinished state of the game. There will always be bugs, and the bigger the game gets the more bugs there will be, as in any piece of software. But in terms of features being introduced after the game was released, then we didn't actually know anything about them until soon before the 1.2 patch - to their credit, they didn't use those unfinished features to increase pre-orders.

GIANTS are unlikely to ever start with a blank canvas "new engine". It will always be the existing engine improved, and presumably there's no real limit to what they could change. Look at new upstart developers and how far behind their "new engines" are. Better to have a proven engine and add features (like the new graphics options) than to start over with a new engine and need to re-programme 10 years of work.

So long as the game is flexible enough to add major features when the time comes (eg dynamic ground, VR, raytracing) then the existing engine will be perfectly fine.
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Farming Girl
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Re: Longer development

Post by Farming Girl »

I think any longer than three years and you could run the risk of the game being already out of date before release, however on a two year development, the game is just getting really good, then bam you have the net one and start all over again.

That's My two pennies worth, not that it means much in the grand scheme of things!
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b101uk
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Re: Longer development

Post by b101uk »

I can see potential in some divergence:

with low to medium end PC/Mac, PS4 and Xbox1 on a 2 year cycle (currant FS)
&
high end PC/Mac, PS5 and Xbox# on a 4 year cycle (new branch more simulation oriented)

with the former DLC feeding content (modified) into the latter between releases.
plays FS15/FS17/FS19/FS22 on PC
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redglasses
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Re: Longer development

Post by redglasses »

I don’t think that’s a good idea to split it like that. Basically means splitting attention between two games when they already have problems with one.
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Sir_Kutz
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Re: Longer development

Post by Sir_Kutz »

I don't mind the 2 yr cycle. What I would like though is a 3 yr life span. I think it would be great for Giants to keep supporting and offering new content for FS19 well into FS21. There are numerous reason why this wouldn't happen, but it would be nice.
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b101uk
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Re: Longer development

Post by b101uk »

redglasses wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:59 am I don’t think that’s a good idea to split it like that. Basically means splitting attention between two games when they already have problems with one.
well at the moment its the PS4/Xbox1 that are holding things back and causing added complication and keeping things more arcade than simulation, and much of the problems I see as a PC user have been brought about in catering to the PS4/Xbox1 market and trying to rationalise things with ALL that problems that brings, and well you cannot blame Giants as a business for chasing the lucrative PS4/Xbox1 markets.

so they have to diverge branches at some point, and in doing so it will make things simpler, its just a question of how they diverge and IF Giants are willing to forgo having so many mods produced primarily on one platform (PC/Mac) available on some other platforms (PS4/Xbox1).

you are looking at another 1 year plus until the PS5/Xbox# arrive, and at least another 2 or 3 years after that until significant numbers of PS4/Xbox1 users have switched to the PS5/Xbox#, and how far do you think PC/Mac will have moved in that time when it comes to medium to high spec PC/Mac.

I know I will be less than impressed if FS21 on higher end PC/Mac is still being held back by catering PS4/Xbox1, and well if Giants kick the PS4/Xbox1 crowed to the kerb in Oct/Nov 2020 with FS21 that is a significant portion of their revenue gone.

and when it comes to divergence if they want PS4/Xbox1 to still have mods then that will be reliant on keeping a portion of the PC/Mac player base on that branch too, in the form of low/medium spec PC/Mac users who make mods and are more interested in FS as it is now.


I know there is a strong possibility of me NOT buying FS21, and that is not because of supposed "problems", it will be down to lack of technical advancement and complex gameplay bought about by catering to the lowest common denominator of PS4/Xbox1 as the limiting factor.
plays FS15/FS17/FS19/FS22 on PC
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blue_painted
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Re: Longer development

Post by blue_painted »

@b101uk - I hope you've got your flameproof suit on after that! :mrgreen:

The game is already sort of split -- but no one mentions FS18 (the mobile version) here -- but there is a practical difference between PC and console; GIANTS are subject to the rules of the console makers, whereas for PC they are largely free to do their own thing. So perhaps it would be better to recognise this and make the split a recognised thing?

Go all out making the console version into the "game to relax with" -- convenient setups, integrated modub, automated mod updates, concentrate on console controllers and peripherals, sacrifice simulation for content slots, bring in more brands ...

Then go all out on the PC version ... whole world simulation tasks that only the biggest can run at 100%, 4K graphics where only the top setups can run with everything maxed, sacrifice the "make it convenient" for the "make it sing", put the effort into modding tools and documentation, rely on modders to make the brands and maps they want to see ...

However and seriously, I think anyone would have a hard time convincing the GIANTS managment that doubling, or squaring, their support and maintenance overhead at the expense of first line sales is really a good option.

Back on topic:
Adding more time might have worked this time around, certainly the terraforming coming as a post-release patch indicates that they cut features to make the shippng date, but overall I think people are forgetting what it was like with FS17's release: smaller scale perhaps, but the same complaints that it wasn't finished at initial release.

And lastly:
A modern car has around 20,000 interactive components. For trivial software, like Notepad or TextEdit, it's nearer 20 million: a lot of that is already in the layers and layers of code that connects silicon to squishy but it's there ... so "bug free" software is pretty much an impossible dream.
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Coldlandlord
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Re: Longer development

Post by Coldlandlord »

i think a 4 year cycle would be best for everyone. That is currently what we have in reality but that is only due to the game being unplayable or worse than the previous game for 12 months and then we have 6 months of it being OK or marginally better and then its the run up to the new game.
I do think that this time around, FS19 will never be as good as fs17 became. I just don't think we are going to see the content ever come to make it better than what is available for fs17. There's a few new, decent mods that have brought a new aspect to the game, such as, irrigation, but i just don't feel that they make up for things like, the diabolical engine sounds, the awful driving physics, the horrendous landscaping and placeables system, etc.

by the time this game is anywhere close to being better and having more content than fs17, the new game will be out. I hope they change to a 4 year development period and really nail the next release! It will also allow more time for the modders to make some really great content, rather than just having to remake the same mods over and over again.
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redglasses
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Re: Longer development

Post by redglasses »

Giants won’t split their already tiny team. It doesn’t make sense for them to do that. You pc guys are always complaining about how consoles are holding you back, but you’re the ones who have access to other, more realistic games. You can also mod the game to fix problems so I don’t want to hear you guys are being held back, you don’t know what being held back is until you’ve played console fs.
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Victor997
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Re: Longer development

Post by Victor997 »

Well I don't think anyone on a console is being held back, the game is better in every way on a PC. I get that everyone will chime in with that they can't afford a pc, despite a PC being the same or costing less than a new console. The only thing holding you back on consoles is your choice to not play on the preferred platform
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