Buried trees and map creators

Doc3d
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Re: Buried trees and map creators

Post by Doc3d » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:28 am

Pict wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:48 pm
Really good mappers don't need to spam a map with junk to make it realistic ;)
Ehh, yes, that is exactly what they need to do to make it realistic!
In case you haven’t noticed, the real world is chock full of junk. I’m sure you’re far from the first person to be annoyed by a tree in the wrong place, but that is realistic, tho. If you used another word, like ‘easy’, ‘comfortable’ or ‘faster’, I wouldn’t say anything, but you are complaining about something done to make the scenery more realistic, and complaining about it -which is wrong, in my book

Now, if you prefer smooth, flat lands with no detail then I guess the maps that look realistic is not for you anyways so what’s there to complain about? It just irks me when people want realism but not all the hassle that goes with it...!

Maybe in FS21 we’ll have removable bushes or trees that can be cut without creating problems, but that’s not what we have at the moment, so modders use the tools they have, and I for one appreciate it. If you don’t like it, play on a different map that don’t have the realistic looking scenery and voila, everybody’s happy?!

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Re: Buried trees and map creators

Post by Victor997 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:52 am

And this thread is exactly why FS21 (hopefully FS22) will have even less modders than 19 and much much less modders than 17. We are losing the best map and model makers left and right, and all anyone here can do is complain about how someone else spent 600 hours making a map for them to use and they don't like the trees, lol. It's ok to think to yourself oh I wish they did it this way, but oh well if I want it that way, I will have to go open up Giants editor and make it that way. If you can't do that, then don't call their work junk.

Ritchie
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Re: Buried trees and map creators

Post by Ritchie » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:21 pm

I just used the Lizard Trex600 to remove a buried tree on Marwell Manor and then placed the Root Crop Storage shed mod over the top (and landscaped a road around the new shed). Didn't take more than 10 seconds to remove that tree.
I'd suggest trying that mod if you're having problems with buried trees.

JCByellowguy
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Re: Buried trees and map creators

Post by JCByellowguy » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:22 pm

I fully appreciate what many map makers have done with the trees to make the hardwood forests come to life with beautiful low growth that fills in the forest floor. Ive spent many of hour on FS17 logging the hardwood sections of certain mod maps and now its even easier with the landscape feature in FS19.

Take the chainsaw and cut into the ground at the base of the limb you want to get rid of. You will find it and the saw will cut into the ground and eliminate it. Once you eliminate the top of said tree above ground use the landscape feature to drop the ground level a bit to expose more of said tree and cut it up. Or just cut what is above ground and then raise the ground over it and use the land.

Very glad to have any mod map someone worked countless hours and decided to share FOR FREE with other users.
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cwattyeso
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Re: Buried trees and map creators

Post by cwattyeso » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:31 pm

Lowering Trees instead of actually make new decorative assets for use on maps is the quick and cheap way to go when map making. It's not map authors who are guilty of this ridiculous practice, but even Giants have done it themselves, look at Estancia Lapacho to see lots of trees buried in the ground. While it may look nice to some people and it may offer more diversity in the scenery, it causes nothing but Game play issues. AI workers for one thing will react to and get scared of buried trees and will miss areas when working fields. Even if you manual cut the buried tree down, because it's been buried it means you can't get to the stump to grind it, which means your stuck with an object below the map you can't remove, that will then continue to causes issues for workers and equipment that will still see and detect the buried object.

Just for the benefit of everyone, stop this stupid behaviour of burying trees, it's as equally bad as having them floating on a map. I spent hours fixing Estancia Lapacho and re-uploading it as Giants were so unwilling to fix the map, but I'm not going to do this with every single map released. I see buried trees when doing a first look of a map, I'll just quit the game and delete the map from my map mod folder. I'm not going to waste a moment on maps with very rubbish map techniques.
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Re: Buried trees and map creators

Post by FarmerJimbob » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:39 pm

I don’t see anything wrong with what the OP has said, it’s absolutely valid to air feedback on mods on this forum as it is for the base game. What has been said after that by others isn’t in his control so don’t blame him or the thread.

I hate the buried trees too as there are no tools in the game to remove them. IRL of course there are similar problems but there are solutions available to you, that’s not the case in game so you’re prevented from playing the way you want to.

Map makers are absolutely entitled to respond by saying that’s how they want to make their map so like it or lump it but if I was a modder I’d want to at least know the reasons why people weren’t playing my map rather than them just not playing it and being too fearful of the backlash from people on here to say why.

I’ve played plenty of great looking maps that haven’t had any problem buried trees so it seems to me it’s a choice not a necessity to make maps this way.

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cwattyeso
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Re: Buried trees and map creators

Post by cwattyeso » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:47 pm

The other option of course that should be considered by the lazy map makers who want to bury and hide trees or even other objects under the map, is to make sure they remember to untick the "Rigid Body" box in the Giants Editor so that they have no collision and then no gameplay effect on anyone or anything working anywhere near them. Though this could also be an issue, because if they are too lazy to decorate a map properly, they are probably far too lazy to untick a box on the hundreds or thousands of useless objects they are adding to their maps. Sadly from my own experience using Giants Editor there does not seem to be a quick and easy way to select all objects of the same name or types and with one handy click turn off the collision. So for someone like me again, I'm not going to spend hours fixing your work for you Mr Lazy Map Maker, I'll just now delete your map, but of course after I have made sure to give it sufficient low rating, feedback and a negative review.
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Ritchie
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Re: Buried trees and map creators

Post by Ritchie » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:18 pm

Feedback is fine, being downright rude is not.
I do wonder what else is going on in people's lives when they immediately jump to the conclusion that something has been done because the person is "lazy" when they more than likely know nothing about that person.

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Re: Buried trees and map creators

Post by farmerfivetom » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:03 pm

Guys, i can say, that buried trees are the best way to make bushes at the Moment. Sure you can plant Them by using a foliafe layer, but there are no real possibility to make a big bush, that could be nearly removed with ingame Features.

You Said making some models. This isn't a big problem right now. The biggest Problem is to make it cuttable/removable with ingame mechaniks Like the chainsaw. I don't know any Modder Who made some bew Models yet.
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Re: Buried trees and map creators

Post by W1der » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:12 pm

It would be nice to have a greater variety of trees and shrubs as part of the game ... both as original content and as placeables to create a more "natural look"!
Why are we not able to paint "shrubs" and weeds with the landscaping tool?

I do not mind the buried trees as much (depends on location) as I do "decorative bales" and such, that can not be removed from my farm yard (or where ever) ... as these are taking up the place where I might have stored my "interactive bales".
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Doc3d
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Re: Buried trees and map creators

Post by Doc3d » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:29 pm

cwattyeso wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:47 pm
The other option of course that should be considered by the lazy map makers who want to bury and hide trees or even other objects under the map, is to make sure they remember to untick the "Rigid Body" box in the Giants Editor so that they have no collision and then no gameplay effect on anyone or anything working anywhere near them. Though this could also be an issue, because if they are too lazy to decorate a map properly, they are probably far too lazy to untick a box on the hundreds or thousands of useless objects they are adding to their maps. Sadly from my own experience using Giants Editor there does not seem to be a quick and easy way to select all objects of the same name or types and with one handy click turn off the collision. So for someone like me again, I'm not going to spend hours fixing your work for you Mr Lazy Map Maker, I'll just now delete your map, but of course after I have made sure to give it sufficient low rating, feedback and a negative review.
These “lazy” modders you speak of are actually some of the most respected and praised modders we have... like BullitBill and Oxygendavid... are you seriously calling them lazy?! It’s not a question of laziness, it’s a choice to use the tools available. And for some reason, these maps are highly praised, by many precisely because of their natural look. By all means, remove every tree you see in Giants editor, but (for me) that would make the map MUCH LESS realistic and much less beautiful.

The bushes currently in game are way too small and uniform to be used extensively to create something resembling nature, for that you need a whole new set of bushes. Until that happens, I’m happy to live with the compromise of using buried trees. Again, if you don’t like it, don’t play it.

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Re: Buried trees and map creators

Post by Pict » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:38 pm

Doc3d wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:28 am
Pict wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:48 pm
Really good mappers don't need to spam a map with junk to make it realistic ;)
Ehh, yes,..< snip >...and voila, everybody’s happy?!
People complain about things they don't like, without that input things would be very much slower to progress.

Ironically, you just complained about people complaining about things they don't like because it's something you don't like, which I find somewhat amusing.

That's fine by me, just don't pretend you know me or my part the world, or try to come across as if you can tell me how to enjoy this great game. :hi:

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Re: Buried trees and map creators

Post by Tylercheesey1986 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:43 pm

Buried trees can be a pain to remove, but I wouldn't say its lazy modding.
I think it is a clever creative way to make a realistic map. Meadowgrove Oakfield and such have plenty of buried trees but imho they are necessary to give the feeling you are actually farming in the English countryside, without them it would not look right.
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Re: Buried trees and map creators

Post by redbull-man82 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:27 pm

dont like buried trees dont go on them maps then simply as . there are maps out that dont have them out . respect to the modders who put many many hours into makeing a map

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cwattyeso
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Re: Buried trees and map creators

Post by cwattyeso » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:17 pm

Exactly I don't go on maps that use Buried Trees with the Rigid Body box still ticked, when the Map Author should have made his own models of bushes and stuff to use on the map instead of this quick and simple approach that causes issues for players and AI workers and issues trying to alter or adjust terrain. Many Map Authors will spend a deal of time making their own buildings and placeables and doing custom designs of those for their maps, the same should then apply if they want more then the Giants default bushes or foliage. If they aren't happy with the number of bushes and foliage available in the editor, then they need to create them and then make them available for all map makers to use. I'm sure these highly praised and respected modders and map makers that everyone talks about could get their heads together and create a whole pack of bushes and foliage between them to use in their map creations. Burying Trees in the ground to act as Fake Bushes is not the correct approach to modding or map making. I don't care what the name of the Map Author is, how many maps they've made or how many people come to these forums to kiss their ass. Bad modding and mapping practice is still bad practice. Like I said in my first post Giants are guilty of it as well and set a bad example. However I'm at the stage where I'm not going to spend time trying to fix and put right maps for other people. It's the same with maps where people don't make their own BGA or something, and just copy and paste the one from Ravenport or Felsbrunn and then don't bother actually adding a proper tip trigger and bale trigger for people to actually be able to sell stuff. Not every player of the game wants to spend hours manually shoveling stuff into a BGA with a bucket. Something that a map author could fix easily when they are making the map, but again for someone like me that take's much longer to fix once then map has been released, to correct this omission and get working right.
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