fs 19 physics discussion

CudoYT
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Re: fs 19 physics discussion

Post by CudoYT » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:22 pm

Still

Farming Simulator without More Realistic Mod is no Farming Simulator.

I miss the drive on Gamsting with my 22to trailers (two, both 11to) and the 6.61 or the T6. Actually, the trailers were too heavy for the T6 even without crops, but with crops he pulled and pulled and pulled.
Lernt Modden/Mappen.
Lädt unregelmäßig Videos auf seinem YT Kanal hoch. :confusednew:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdXJ4G ... t5YyhWyPBg[/youtube]

SimpleFarmer
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Re: fs 19 physics discussion

Post by SimpleFarmer » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:20 pm

I think bale physics are okay - it's pallet physics that needs updated. Also even more important is friction with the ground. everything not on tires just slided around the map. Try tipping up a tipped over truck - it just slides around the map like an airhockey table. Pallets are even worse. IRL if you push in to a pallet of seed bags, it wont just slide across the field, it will dig into the ground and the pallet will break. Of course, we can't have breaking pallets, but chasing them around a plowed field is so annoying.
And I don't even want to start on loggign physics. But I will say logging physics has come a very long way since FS15. (I switched from FS15 to 19.)
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george.earlslight
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Re: fs 19 physics discussion

Post by george.earlslight » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:58 am

SimpleFarmer wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:20 pm
I think bale physics are okay
Have you tried to stack bales using the in-game auto stackers?
The Giants engine shuts off physics for bales once the player (vehicle, bale fork, etc) is a few meters away from the bale stack.
When the player is getting close it turns on making the bales shake all over without having any physical contact.
I've had perfectly stacked bales shaking and creating interesting sculptures on their own.

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this_is_gav
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Re: fs 19 physics discussion

Post by this_is_gav » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:58 am

george.earlslight wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:58 am
When the player is getting close it turns on making the bales shake all over without having any physical contact.
I've had perfectly stacked bales shaking and creating interesting sculptures on their own.
Normally I stack bales next to each other (either row next to row, or stack one in front of the other depending on the auto-loader) and I can't say I've seen that with either GIANTS' own auto-stacker mods or those in the Anderson DLC. The only time they move at all for me is if I clip them accidentally.

I've seen others saying what you've experienced too, but I suspect there is a conflict with a mod or DLC which I don't have.

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Re: fs 19 physics discussion

Post by george.earlslight » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:35 pm

this_is_gav wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:58 am
george.earlslight wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:58 am
When the player is getting close it turns on making the bales shake all over without having any physical contact.
I've had perfectly stacked bales shaking and creating interesting sculptures on their own.
Normally I stack bales next to each other (either row next to row, or stack one in front of the other depending on the auto-loader) and I can't say I've seen that with either GIANTS' own auto-stacker mods or those in the Anderson DLC. The only time they move at all for me is if I clip them accidentally.

I've seen others saying what you've experienced too, but I suspect there is a conflict with a mod or DLC which I don't have.
I've experienced this using the Anderson 16x square bale stacker.
When unloading, the stacker extends its rear guards (I've also seen this in real life videos because I was curious), so it's impossible to stack rows without any gap. I've had this happen on a simple shed with 16High x 4Wide x 4Deep storage. The deep part was zero gap, while the wide part was about 1m apart.

I'll load the game without any Mods and try to figure out if a Mod or DLC generated this behaviour.

norfolk farmer
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Re: fs 19 physics discussion

Post by norfolk farmer » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:39 pm

I like to play as realistically as i possibly can but I make an exception when it comes to bales as I've had enough of nicely made stacks shaking and moving about ruining what has been done. So it's autoloading bale stacks and trailers all the way for me until bale physics are made to behave better.

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this_is_gav
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Re: fs 19 physics discussion

Post by this_is_gav » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:05 pm

george.earlslight wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:35 pm
I've experienced this using the Anderson 16x square bale stacker.
When unloading, the stacker extends its rear guards (I've also seen this in real life videos because I was curious), so it's impossible to stack rows without any gap. I've had this happen on a simple shed with 16High x 4Wide x 4Deep storage. The deep part was zero gap, while the wide part was about 1m apart.

I'll load the game without any Mods and try to figure out if a Mod or DLC generated this behaviour.
I've definitely stacked bales with the Ursus T-127 auto-loader which unloads the round bales vertically touching the stack behind, though I will add that I usually start the loading process before being in position, just for time-saving.

I'm pretty sure I also used the Anderson round bale slider auto-loader, the RBM2000, and the square equivalent, the TSR3450, when I had my Marwell Manor save, again unloading one in front of the other with no issues. I assume I also started getting the trailer into the unloading state before being in position though, which is perhaps why I haven't seen it.

I might try testing a few methods myself later to see if there's any particular trend which causes it.

SimpleFarmer
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Re: fs 19 physics discussion

Post by SimpleFarmer » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:07 pm

george.earlslight wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:58 am
SimpleFarmer wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:20 pm
I think bale physics are okay
Have you tried to stack bales using the in-game auto stackers?
The Giants engine shuts off physics for bales once the player (vehicle, bale fork, etc) is a few meters away from the bale stack.
When the player is getting close it turns on making the bales shake all over without having any physical contact.
I've had perfectly stacked bales shaking and creating interesting sculptures on their own.
I use those a lot, sometimes they do get frustrating. I've never had this happen, but the Anderson round bale trailers have issues unloading sometimes. I don't think this is as annoying as the pallets though, but I usually don't use auto stackers and do it myself with a multi-bale fork, so maybe that's why.
Try doing the potatoes/beets to pallets and loading 200 of them. You'll see what I mean by annoying physics. Or try logging lol :oops:
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SJ_Sathanas
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Re: fs 19 physics discussion

Post by SJ_Sathanas » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:38 pm

I actually think the logging physics are ok but I've also had nicely stacked bales unstack themselves.

SimpleFarmer
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Re: fs 19 physics discussion

Post by SimpleFarmer » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:51 pm

SJ_Sathanas wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:38 pm
I actually think the logging physics are ok but I've also had nicely stacked bales unstack themselves.
I rant about logging but I've found it getting less frustrating the more I do it. I think what is more the problem is the control mapping not being changeable. I operate an excavator all the time and then switching to Xbox is all sorts of crazy. But the physics have come a long way.
Also, if anyone else plays on console: do you notice that the rotate function is complete crap? The tree never rotates even when it's super short. Or it rotates all at once - almost impossible to get a straight stack. I see people on Youtube with consoles rotating the trees all perfectly and stuff... must be nice.
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george.earlslight
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Re: fs 19 physics discussion

Post by george.earlslight » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:27 am

SimpleFarmer wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:07 pm

I use those a lot, sometimes they do get frustrating. I've never had this happen, but the Anderson round bale trailers have issues unloading sometimes. I don't think this is as annoying as the pallets though, but I usually don't use auto stackers and do it myself with a multi-bale fork, so maybe that's why.
Try doing the potatoes/beets to pallets and loading 200 of them. You'll see what I mean by annoying physics. Or try logging lol :oops:
I feel you, I totally agree about pallets.
One trick I've found is keeping the fork tilt unchanged:
- Level the unloaded fork parallel to the ground/flatbed
- Slide the fork under the pallet and lift, no tilt!
- The fork will tilt on its own because of weight, but still do not tilt it
- Go where you want and lower the pallet, no tilt
- Back up to let it slide from the fork, no tilt
This has worked OKish if I'm careful and don't lower too much, letting the fork magically appear inside the pallet's base.

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this_is_gav
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Re: fs 19 physics discussion

Post by this_is_gav » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:37 pm

Regarding bale stacks I've been doing by own testing, both with unloading the different auto-loaders (only in-game, DLC and GIANTS mod ones) and how close I could get with tractors before shaking starts. I've not tested buildings and whether they play a part.

In short, only the bales unloaded with the stackers (ones which unload vertically) exhibit any shaking of bales unloading next to them. Bales unloaded with Anderson DLC bale loaders (horizontal unloaders) don't exhibit any shaking at all from what I could see. Perhaps bale orientation plays a part in any shaking and wobbling?

I've added my findings to makefs19greatagain's existing bug report originally started last July.

george.earlslight
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Re: fs 19 physics discussion

Post by george.earlslight » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:24 am

this_is_gav wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:37 pm
Regarding bale stacks I've been doing by own testing, both with unloading the different auto-loaders (only in-game, DLC and GIANTS mod ones) and how close I could get with tractors before shaking starts. I've not tested buildings and whether they play a part.

In short, only the bales unloaded with the stackers (ones which unload vertically) exhibit any shaking of bales unloading next to them. Bales unloaded with Anderson DLC bale loaders (horizontal unloaders) don't exhibit any shaking at all from what I could see. Perhaps bale orientation plays a part in any shaking and wobbling?

I've added my findings to makefs19greatagain's existing bug report originally started last July.
Thanks for the research and contribution to the bug post.
My horizontal round bale stacks are very stable too, only the vertical stacks are "dancing".

SJ_Sathanas
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Re: fs 19 physics discussion

Post by SJ_Sathanas » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:52 am

Lol I think you can close the book on that particular bug report, especially if they're pushing on with FS21.

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this_is_gav
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Re: fs 19 physics discussion

Post by this_is_gav » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:14 am

I'm not expecting anything for FS19 at this point, but hopefully they can look into whether it can be improved for FS2x.

Most of the issues we see with bales is just how rigid they are. There weight is there, but as they can't deform it makes it behave like they're hollow tubes. The problem with making proper bale physics is that you've got potentially several hundred bales at any given time, and computing that level of physics with all of them simply isn't feasible.

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