Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

george.earlslight
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Re: Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

Post by george.earlslight » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:05 am

Considering that this exploit has been in-game since day one, I'd argue that Giants considers this a game feature.
It wouldn't make sense in the real world. You can't borrow 200k from the bank, buy a ready to be harvested field, harvest it, sell the crop, sell back the field and pay back the loan without interest.
But this is not a simulator game in the strict sense of it, it's rather a sim-light I'd say.

Phigo
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Re: Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

Post by Phigo » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:43 am

I don't get the whole Point: Why it should be a bug? The difference between this and a real bug (like no growing grass or a tractor with missing wheels, helpers driving in circles) is, that you can actually Play the game how you want. There are a couple of ways to unbalance the economy. If you enjoy it please do so - if not don't sell anything you got and buy a Windturbine and fastforward 3 weeks.

In fact - for field flipping, you have to do something: harvesting and before that doing contracts for maxing out the yield. The AI does not do a single Thing on that contract-fields. If you wanna buy a field, go for the contracts and buy when ready to harvest to get a cheap field.
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Goose66
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Re: Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

Post by Goose66 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:33 am

I mean personally I never play Alien Jim maps as you can load up a tanker of free water and sell it !
Just depends on how you want to play the game.

There are a fair few exploits in some maps, mods etc. Harvesters that harvest at 70kph, buy silos that can make you mountains of cash.

Just don't use them if it bothers the player that much.
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norfolk farmer
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Re: Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

Post by norfolk farmer » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:35 am

We each choose to play the game in whatever style we choose 👍

blue_painted
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Re: Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

Post by blue_painted » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:28 am

Mostly I agree with the general sentiment "It's not a bug, it's not game breaking and you can just ignore it..."

But ...

If you come across something like this, say several hours into a gamesave, and then you find out "Oh crikey(1) I didn't need to do all that work, all that tension over beating the rain, finessing my loan amounts etc etc etc was unnecessary ..." then, yes, I can sympathise with OP.

(1) Or some other expletive.
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Eische
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Re: Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

Post by Eische » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:58 am

hun3 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:26 am
Valid point...buying and re selling material like fertilizer works the same way. You can just make money on flipping material.
In base game you can't sell stuff like solid fertilizer. So that is left to the map creator which sell price he sets for the products.
Nevertheless, just like the field flipping, it is left to you to use that exploit. It is not the game forcing you to use it.
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hugassi
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Re: Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

Post by hugassi » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:42 pm

Illinois Farmer wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:10 pm
Here's this scenario for you, irl I just bought a farm for 800,000 dollars or 10000/acre. Now the farmer has until December 1st to get his crops off, but if he doesn't technically I can harvest them (I won't cuz that would be bad), then I know other farmers that bought fields around that for 13000/acre that wasn't offered my piece. I bet I could turn that field and sell it to them for 13000 if I really wanted to. Therefore, I would have made a profit of 50000 dollars without even doing anything. Game breaking? Nah.

Edit: the problem in real life I won't get another chance to buy that piece of land and hopefully over the years make way more than 50000 dollars.
I totally agree with you, as I had mentioned in my pos't before in real life can be seen as an investment, because when I do that I go back to work (fertilizing, planting, ...) the land for when the sell is ready and not abandoned, somehow simulating what it would do in real life as an investment contract.
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hugassi
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Re: Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

Post by hugassi » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:37 pm

I would like to add a detail to the debate.
In my personal opinion, we should have very personal goals and I give an example of myself.
I like to make money without cheating but nevertheless my main goal never goes through money but by doing all the possible tasks with the pleasure of doing them well and without stress, I like the fields, the machines, the animals and everything in the game so much I sometimes spend time organizing and enjoying what I am doing even at an economic loss because I value it much more than getting a lot of money.
It's just a game and everyone should play as they please regardless of some kind of cheating.
good job for everyone in the fields friends :hi:
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Frag
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Re: Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

Post by Frag » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:56 pm

Another good thing about the fix I proposed (land value should be the field value + crops value) is that you could generate money by taking good care of a field.

Example:

- You buy the field empty (like harvested or cultivated). So the field value is 125 000$. (land 125 000$ + crops value 0$)
- You plow, fertilize, sow and you sell it back when it is ready to be harvested. So the field value is now 125 000$ + the crop value of 20 000$ = 145 000$.

This would feel more like legitimate flipping since you actually did some work to raise the land value. Giant could even add value for fertilized layer and weed percentage.

The ole issue I see with the actual system is that the AI is always giving you the crop for free when you buy the land. In a game dedicated to simulate farm ownership where you deal with banks, crop value and buying material ... it does feel like a hole.

I know ... it has been said many time that you don't need to do it. But a simple fix like that would make it more realistic (its a simulator after all) and would add a new dimension to the game (buying empty desolated field to make them attractive and sell those back, which is what flipping is).

Phigo
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Re: Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

Post by Phigo » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:50 pm

Frag wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:56 pm
Another good thing about the fix I proposed (land value should be the field value + crops value) is that you could generate money by taking good care of a field.

Example:

- You buy the field empty (like harvested or cultivated). So the field value is 125 000$. (land 125 000$ + crops value 0$)
- You plow, fertilize, sow and you sell it back when it is ready to be harvested. So the field value is now 125 000$ + the crop value of 20 000$ = 145 000$.

This would feel more like legitimate flipping since you actually did some work to raise the land value. Giant could even add value for fertilized layer and weed percentage.

The ole issue I see with the actual system is that the AI is always giving you the crop for free when you buy the land. In a game dedicated to simulate farm ownership where you deal with banks, crop value and buying material ... it does feel like a hole.

I know ... it has been said many time that you don't need to do it. But a simple fix like that would make it more realistic (its a simulator after all) and would add a new dimension to the game (buying empty desolated field to make them attractive and sell those back, which is what flipping is).
And how realistic would THAT be? Is there anyone who has done that in reality for a living? I mean buy houses or cars and sell them after taking good care is one Thing - but fields?
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Frag
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Re: Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

Post by Frag » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:55 pm

Phigo wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:50 pm
Frag wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:56 pm
Another good thing about the fix I proposed (land value should be the field value + crops value) is that you could generate money by taking good care of a field.

Example:

- You buy the field empty (like harvested or cultivated). So the field value is 125 000$. (land 125 000$ + crops value 0$)
- You plow, fertilize, sow and you sell it back when it is ready to be harvested. So the field value is now 125 000$ + the crop value of 20 000$ = 145 000$.

This would feel more like legitimate flipping since you actually did some work to raise the land value. Giant could even add value for fertilized layer and weed percentage.

The ole issue I see with the actual system is that the AI is always giving you the crop for free when you buy the land. In a game dedicated to simulate farm ownership where you deal with banks, crop value and buying material ... it does feel like a hole.

I know ... it has been said many time that you don't need to do it. But a simple fix like that would make it more realistic (its a simulator after all) and would add a new dimension to the game (buying empty desolated field to make them attractive and sell those back, which is what flipping is).
And how realistic would THAT be? Is there anyone who has done that in reality for a living? I mean buy houses or cars and sell them after taking good care is one Thing - but fields?
I am actually talking from a game mechanic perspective. In real life ... there is a LOT more to consider. Nobody would want to go there. Idea is to have to do something to generate money, not only stealing crops from the available fields. I feel it would be a step forward, but its only my opinion.

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hugassi
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Re: Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

Post by hugassi » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:35 pm

on ALiEN JiM maps like Mercury Farms you can get free water and sell it for a little profit no cheating is a business
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Phantoms
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Re: Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

Post by Phantoms » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:41 pm

Frag wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:26 pm
What if you could buy a trailer for 10k and sell it for 12k. You could simply buy/sell in loops to get rich and obtain all the high end machinery with no effort. Would you consider it a bug? This is the exact
You could do just that in FS15 (can't remember if FS17 was the same way). Buy equipment/tractors/harvestors when they come up on sale and then drive them 10 feet to the store sell spot and get almost full price for them. Rinse repeat over and over.

I do understand what you're getting at though. Perhaps it could be fixed instead of adding amounts for field stage at sale which adds a lot of complexity, to simply subtracting a fair percentage when you sale a field from it's bought price (no matter the field stage).

Another way to fix it would be to simply reset any field you buy removing all crops, but I suspect many people would not like fixing it this way.

Maybe a mod will come along that does one or the other. After all, there are mods for fuel consumption, grain weight, etc.
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Re: Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

Post by FarmBoss » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:20 pm

Frag, if nothing else, you've learned that Giants can do no wrong in a lot of peoples eyes. Depending on the bug, you'll get mass hysteria agreeing or mass hysteria disagreeing.
With this particular bug, people say it's not a bug, but a feature, or, if you don't like it don't do it.
I could name other bugs that were talked about that everyone seemed to defend against.
You're fighting a losing battle, so you might as well fill out a bug report or just forget it all together.

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Riven326
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Re: Ouch: Quite a game balance breaking exploit!

Post by Riven326 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:22 pm

There also a mod that gives you free money. Just don't use it.

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