fs17 revisited

[Lexie]

I saw OxygenDavid make a post on Facebook about making his most realistic map yet for FS-19 and its using 4K textures. Presumably this won't be coming to mod hub then.

Based on what BullitBill says, it can't be on modhub, but very curious how it looks and what is done with the lightning.
Lightning is still one of the other problems with 19, and also modders seems not able to fix this because how Giants implement it.

I don't think Giants do provide help for borders, you can use the default ones or make them yourself. Even Giants does not bother how it looks, see the default maps. Same problem with sounds, they do not bother about that too, tractors in DLC are having the same terrible sounds.

[BulletBill]

For me as console player FS19 does not offer what I want, and I doubt future versions will, also not on next gen consoles.
FS17 still rocks, and with people like you, making this "old" game still better and look so nice, I'm thinking about buying a pc instead of a next gen console, so I can play The Western Shore.

If you are able to get a PC, then I doubt you'll ever go back to console after that.
I do like the ease of gaming thats consoles offer, but for a game like Farm Sim, it just makes far more sense on PC, not to mention better graphics, draw distances and more mod choice.

I've sometimes wondered what tools Giants could provide to help make decent map borders. For example could they add something into the Giants editor to make bespoke border hills you could apply you're own textures too? It does seem curious that they don't provide anything to help solve the problem except the default hills you can use from the base game maps.

I wonder how much will change moving into the next console generation. I guess Giants will have to bite the bullet and allow 4K textures at some point. I saw OxygenDavid make a post on Facebook about making his most realistic map yet for FS-19 and its using 4K textures. Presumably this won't be coming to mod hub then.

GIANTS don't view it as a priority for modders to have a proper Blender Exporter. If that is their attitude with something vital like that, how can we expect them to help modders in other ways.

Farm Sim to GIANTS is a casual, arcade game, little more than an Agriculture showroom demo.
At least that is how It appears to me by there comments and particularly how they made Fs19.

Oxygendavid's new map "Calmsden Farm" will not be on Modhub as it uses many 4k textures for all the new models on the map.

You can follow along the progress via his Facebook page or his Discord.

[Mobias]

GIANTS don't view it as a priority for modders to have a proper Blender Exporter. If that is their attitude with something vital like that, how can we expect them to help modders in other ways.

Farm Sim to GIANTS is a casual, arcade game, little more than an Agriculture showroom demo.
At least that is how It appears to me by there comments and particularly how they made Fs19.

Oxygendavid's new map "Calmsden Farm" will not be on Modhub as it uses many 4k textures for all the new models on the map.

You can follow along the progress via his Facebook page or his Discord.

Yeah I remember reading about them not making a proper Blender exporter. Did it ever come out what their reasoning was behind that? Just seems weird for them to not accommodate the application that pretty much everyone uses for making mods.

With FS-19 its pretty clear Giants made a big list of things people wanted, mainly on console where the money is, and did their best to bring those features into the game whilst at the same time obviously having to trade off what the consoles are capable of. In the end we got a game that had all these new much asked for features but sadly pretty much all of them only half work or looked like they might be a good idea on paper but once brought into the game just muddle the experience. They should never have bothered with those three game modes. The whole start from scratch mode seemed only put in there to appease a handful of players yet it makes map making so much more of faff.

[CowsGoMoo]

Yeah I remember reading about them not making a proper Blender exporter. Did it ever come out what their reasoning was behind that? Just seems weird for them to not accommodate the application that pretty much everyone uses for making mods.

With FS-19 its pretty clear Giants made a big list of things people wanted, mainly on console where the money is, and did their best to bring those features into the game whilst at the same time obviously having to trade off what the consoles are capable of. In the end we got a game that had all these new much asked for features but sadly pretty much all of them only half work or looked like they might be a good idea on paper but once brought into the game just muddle the experience. They should never have bothered with those three game modes. The whole start from scratch mode seemed only put in there to appease a handful of players yet it makes map making so much more of faff.

The three modes made more sense before economy difficulty could be selected separately.
My biggest quip is the naming, why is a mode where you start off with nothing called farm manager yet a mode that starts with equipment and land new farmer?

But to a point you are very right. The biggest things in 17 I missed going from pc to console were all addressed by mods on pc, bigger loans, ability to sell fields (not land plots just fields), and buying chickens.

[Coldlandlord]

I was a die hard FS fan. Played and loved playing since the first one. 17 is a great game and then FS19 came along. I was so pi** off with how it was released when it was barely in Beta and that all the "new and exciting" features turned out to be broken and pointless, I stopped playing all together.
I came back to it after 6-12 months, hoping the modding community had sorted it out and yes there were improvements and good content but there's just something about this game that I really dislike. Maybe its lots of little things like the sounds, the lighting, the lack of mod choice, etc that just don't bring the game together like 17? Maybe the hype exceeded the reality to the point of leaving me disappointed and unforgiving, maybe the alienation of the modders through a quick turnover of the game and no real strides forwards, resulting in some of them just packing it in.
If i had the skill to mod as well as these guys, i would be really bored spending 1000's of hours on a project to then have to do it all again for the next game which for over half its life span is worse than the previous game.

I really hope that they sort it out for the next game and revive my enthusiasm for it. If i start it up and my steering wheel doesn't work or If we have to wait 12 months for a GPS, courseplay and seasons mod again then I am out. Its been years, we all want the option in the base game, end of. There has to be a drastic and radical improvement for the next one!

[Lexie]

I really hope that they sort it out for the next game and revive my enthusiasm for it. If i start it up and my steering wheel doesn't work or If we have to wait 12 months for a GPS, courseplay and seasons mod again then I am out. Its been years, we all want the option in the base game, end of. There has to be a drastic and radical improvement for the next one!

I'm afraid that drastic improvement will not be in the next game as they even do not fix a lot of stuff in FS19, they leave it as it is with a won't fix. The Claas DLC fixes takes 6 months, so that's actually how they work. Sounds are still terribe, even in newer dlc's.

When playing FS17, there is a connection with the game as in it's a real world, you could almost smell the countryside.
It's remembers me at the time as child on holiday at the countryside, the sounds of the tractors, the forest, the meadows and so on.
FS19 is empty, not real, like a cartoon film without any life, there is more detail in the textures but it does not give the game the feel it needs.

So for now I will spend my time in FS17 and as I'm really afraid the next one won't be any better, I will keep playing FS17 in the future.

[FarmBoss]

I really hope that they sort it out for the next game and revive my enthusiasm for it. If i start it up and my steering wheel doesn't work or If we have to wait 12 months for a GPS, courseplay and seasons mod again then I am out. Its been years, we all want the option in the base game, end of. There has to be a drastic and radical improvement for the next one!

I'm afraid that drastic improvement will not be in the next game as they even do not fix a lot of stuff in FS19, they leave it as it is with a won't fix.
The Claas DLC fixes takes 6 months, so that's actually how they work. Sounds are still terribe, even in newer dlc's.

When playing FS17, there is a connection with the game as in it's a real world, you could almost smell the countryside.
It's remembers me at the time as child on holiday at the countryside, the sounds of the tractors, the forest, the meadows and so on.
FS19 is empty, not real, like a cartoon film without any life, there is more detail in the textures but it does not give the game the feel it needs.

So for now I will spend my time in FS17 and as I'm really afraid the next one won't be any better, I will keep playing FS17 in the future.

They would probably have to replace everybody on their staff for you to see the type of improvement you're hoping for.
Yes, 19 was hyped big time. They could have followed a similar path as Hello Games, but instead they rely to heavily on the modding community.
SCS Software has a good way of doing things, and some players wish Giants would go the same route.

[BulletBill]

FS19 is empty, not real, like a cartoon film without any life, there is more detail in the textures but it does not give the game the feel it needs.

This is how it feels for me. There might be more detail in the machinery but its come at the expense of the rest of the world and environment. The feel and look of the game, which is where I get my enjoyment from.

I am curious how exactly they plan to entice the many fans of FS who have grown weary of the same excuses, the [WON'T FIX] attitude, and the lack of support for modding to want to buy the next installment.

At least on PC the recurring comment is one of frustration and no long term enjoyment of the game. With just short term enjoyment from the occasional mod which seems to last shorter with each new mod release.

It's clear at the moment that GIANTS couldn't careless with their focus solely on the console market, maybe if Fs2X is a huge flop sales wise it might make them sit up and take notice.

[Lexie]

It's clear at the moment that GIANTS couldn't careless with their focus solely on the console market, maybe if Fs2X is a huge flop sales wise it might make them sit up and take notice.

But also console players are not happy. I was hyped, pre-ordered the game, canceled the pre-order after seeing the pre-release streams and did buy the game when it was on sale last august. I'm still regret my purchase of the game and the platinum expansion. In the end I spend more time looking for mods then spending time at playing. With FS17 I can even have fun and enjoyment on base maps and without mods. Of course playing on a good map with seasons and some other mods is much better, but FS19 without mods is absolutely not funny and even with mods it's not that much fun either.

A lot of developers and publishers are acting the same as Giants, bugs are not fixed, patches make games worse and everything is rushed. Money seems to be the only important thing nowadays but a lot of people seems not to be bothered.

[blue_painted]

Money has always been a very important factor -- it might not seem so, but that's because good customer service also leads to money -- and fundamentally a game is a success if it sells well: not if people like it, not if people play it but if it sells well. A game series is also a success if it sells well, it might seem that the sales of Version 2 are dependant on the reception of Version 1, and while that is true where the market for the two versions are the same, it's not where the market has changed -- and I think that's what's happening to Farming Simulator: It was a niche game, really appealing to nerds (not intended to be a slur) people who were willing to put the effort in to enjoy, those people who would go on to become modders because they could see the potential. These days those people have moved on, and the game has moved away. So now its becoming a game for people who want to roar around in the fave brand of tractor, who want to build a farm by placing stock buildings, who want to clear away all the "junk" from yards and maps, and GIANTS is moving the game to meet them.

And also, while it might seem that the industry is getting more careless and slapdash it really isn't: Fallout 76? SimCity online? World of Warcraft? Windows Me? Mac OS 10.0 Cheetah? iPhone 5 iOS (or was it 6?) ... the list goes on and on.

It's not all gloom-and-doom, there are some positives:

1. in side-stepping a routine 2020 release of FS21 it shows that GIANTS has changed one limiting factor.
2. By employing Rahkiin you can see they value the kind of work that is Seasons (hopefully)
3. Now that John Deere is in the game, and to a lesser extent Claas, there are no more poster-boy brands to hang a release on - so it would have to be something else.

But even so ...

A. The Farm Sim League is a worrying thing -- farming really isn't competitive in that sense -- and indicates that someone has lost the plot.
B. There was a strong hint that GIANTS are looking at 5th Gen consoles, and that will direct the development energy into making the code work on those platforms, rather than making the game play better.

TL;DR It could all slide into the slurry pit, but I hope not.

[this_is_gav]

B. There was a strong hint that GIANTS are looking at 5th Gen consoles, and that will direct the development energy into making the code work on those platforms, rather than making the game play better.

I agree with a lot about what you say, but I'll say that next gen consoles can only make the game better.

The extra cores on tap will hopefully lead GIANTS to lean more on multi-threading - they already do to a degree, but it's quite a challenge technically to code for lots of threads. If they can pull it off, then it will lead to a game with better all-round performance and things like AI performance and capabilities could be greatly increased. Like I say, it's not easy (which is why only AAA studios tend to have the capabilities to use 8+ cores - not exclusively AAA, but certainly most are much bigger than GIANTS are), but hopefully GIANTS are able to tap into that extra headroom.

Even without the extra cores the better power per core and far superior graphics of the next gen consoles ought to make for far better performance anyway.

The issue is whether GIANTS will be forced to support current gen consoles as well as next gen. The game desperately needs to be freed of the shackles that the current gen has, but a global recession means they have a hard job dropping losing all those potential sales.

FSL doesn't worry me, so long as it's only second to the game and not leading the game anywhere it shouldn't be going. The level of programming needed for FSL ought to be relatively small. Quite a bit of testing to get the balance right, but I don't think it detracted from the game to any major degree. Personally I found it fun to watch at first, but I got a bit bored, especially with it being on at weekends in afternoons in Europe, up against major sports. Only GIANTS will know whether it brought extra sales, which is ultimately why it's a thing.

[Mobias]

I always think games succeed the most when they focus on appealing to their core fanbase rather than spreading themselves too thinly trying to appease everyone. Giants should really think about that because FS-19 fell into that trap I think. If they focused on pleasing people who play the game a lot and know and love the realism and immersion of it then everyone else will get onboard regardless. If they try and appease the more casual players too much then they'll alienate the core fans of the game who will just give up on it.

Like I've said before I really don't think more casual players would necessarily be turned off or give up on it if Giants started making the game more realistic - physics, gameplay and whatever else. But serious fans of the game who want more realism obviously will be turned off if Giants start catering too much to the more casual players who I don't really think know what they want from the game anyway.

I guess there must be a line of thinking from Giants which is if they can really develop the placeables side of things and the whole 'build and farm' aspect to it then they can wrestle the success of the game away from map modders. I would guess Giants are more than aware that the entire success of the franchise rests, to be honest about it, on the shoulders of a handful of good map modders out there.

I was just thinking earlier today when I was playing the game that its crazy the game only comes with two maps at launch. Leaving aside the quality, or lack of, of those two maps its just crazy there's only two base game maps. There should really be a whole load of various types of maps, UK, European, US and wherever else that come with the game from day one. Giants should ditch further development of the placeables feature and invest in making amazing realistic maps in house. Its crazy they don't make anywhere near the best maps out there. Its them that should be setting the standard, just like they do with their vehicles and implements. Its a really weird situation that one.

[Cokey]

Personally, ive never even played on a stock map since fs 15 when i had to. Its mad really with a series with so many versions of the game that its still the modders who make the game what it is. I think giants really need to step up and offer a lot more for the base game. I would say 80-90% of the equipment i use is modded which for such an established game is unbelievable really. Giants basically make money from modders because i certainly wouldnt buy the base game with no mods available

[eric21]

They would probably have to replace everybody on their staff for you to see the type of improvement you're hoping for.
Yes, 19 was hyped big time. They could have followed a similar path as Hello Games, but instead they rely to heavily on the modding community.
SCS Software has a good way of doing things, and some players wish Giants would go the same route.

No mans sky uses lots of mods

[FarmBoss]

They would probably have to replace everybody on their staff for you to see the type of improvement you're hoping for.
Yes, 19 was hyped big time. They could have followed a similar path as Hello Games, but instead they rely to heavily on the modding community.
SCS Software has a good way of doing things, and some players wish Giants would go the same route.

No mans sky uses lots of mods

Yes, and the developers continually work to complete the game and patch bugs.