So Giants Got A New BugTracker

[gordon861]

OK so I just noticed (a week late) that Giants have finally decided to implement a proper system for tracking bugs, one can only hope that it'll include fixing them quicker than waiting for the next paid DLC.

So the first thing I do when I see the page is obvious, click the new link so I can see what's been reported. Click on the link and find a login page, no problem Chrome has my login details for Giants so it'll be simple. But no that'd be to easy, Giants want you to register again, you can't even see the list of reported bugs WTH.

Considering that it's known that a small minority of players even bother creating a login for a games official forums, how many of this small majority are going to then create a second login just to be able to tell Giants that there is a bug in the game, especially when they can't even find out if it's been already reported before creating this login.

So I keep reading

We wanted to get away from the forum where these bugs would often get lost in the fray and won't find their way to the according developer (team). With our new bugtracker we can better handle the way you can report any findings you might discover while playing. The bugs can then be assigned properly to the according dev, similar to how our internal QA does. We can also let you know once a bug has been assigned or closed this way with just a few clicks.

OK, perhaps you could just have moderated the old bug forum properly and acknowledged bugs in a post instead of just changing the thread title, which the thread maker could also do, or you could have moved threads into sub forums as they were rejected/closed/worked on.

But I read on,

Also, for now - the bugtracker will only be used for bugs regarding the Kverneland DLC - all other bugs can instead be reported in our old bug forums

So now I need to guess if a bug I spot in an old bit of kit is caused by something changed in the new DLC or just another bug that has been there since launch, in the past I could look at the bugs forum, it was a pain to search but it worked. Now there is no way to tell, reading on even when logged in I won't be able to see if anyone else has reported a problem because I can only see bugs that I've reported.


Make it better
I assume that what you are doing is assigning each report a 'report number' which is then being assigned to a central bug list where each bug will be assigned to a Dev/Team to work on. So each report of the same bug will be also assigned to the same bug. So a bug with a harvester digging into the ground could have multiple 'report numbers' assigned to single bug.
Guessing that this central bug list will have a simple description and a status, such as "Rostselmash RSM161 keeps stopping" and "investigating", then this very basic information needs to be made public on the forums.

I understand what you are trying to do, I understand that keeping a track on the bug forum is difficult but this system as it stands is not the answer. This will never work unless it is for all bugs and there is a way so see what's already being reported/worked on.


Whilst on the subject of bugs
The signature of that thread by 'x Lethian x' the QA Lead has three links:
1. How to report a BUG - brings up 'You are not authorised to read this forum'
2. How to post a log file - links to a German(which Chrome translates) and a translated post in an LS15 archived thread
3. How to upload images - links to a German(which Chrome translates) and a translated post in an LS15 archived thread
Some of the information might still be correct, one is definitely not, but two out of three ain't bad.

[humbe]

I would assume their main goal is to find out what bugs affects the most players and would give the most impact fixing. I doubt they have resources to look at most bugs. One would think they wanted to make it low effort to add and identify same issue already reported, but maybe they want to handle it internally to avoid skew in data .

[SJ_Sathanas]

[WON'T FIX]

[Alagos]

First, what about them using the kverneland DLC to try out this new system before expanding it to the whole game?
Kind of obvious to me that's probably the thinking behind limiting it by now.

Second, separating DLC bugs from non-DLC bugs should also be relatively easy, since DLC bugs only relate to DLC items and nothing else that 'might' be influenced by the 1.6 patch that came out with the new DLC.

Third,
- the 'how to post a bug' link refers to the same topic you've been reading. It's just linked to a copy of the topic normal people cant see, will ask Lethian to change that.
-for the other 2 links, scroll down and read the nice English translations on the same topics that are still accurate for 99%, even if they are in an archived forum section.

[iB055]

[WON'T FIX]

The universal fix for everything.

[FarmCatJenkins]

[WON'T FIX]

The universal fix for everything.

My favorite is "Could Not Duplicate"
Ahhh I miss the Air Force!

[FarmBoss]

I fear saying this, but to me (IMHO), it is just another example of releasing something that isn't finished.
Two methods for submitting bug reports will probably just confuse everything. DLC bugs will probably be reported in the different tools by different people.
What if you don't know the bug is related to DLC? Are they planning to migrate existing bug reports to the new tool, or will they expect them to be resubmitted.
In my job, If I released something like this, I'd be fired by the client.
There isn't any need to beta test a bug tool.
Develop it until it's complete. Migrate all existing bug data. Allow people to use their forum account, to match up with their previously submitted bugs. Provide steps to use the new tool.

[humbe]

It's not a bug. It's a feature

Duplicated is typically when there's multiple bugs for same issue. Think you meant "could not reproduce". Fixing easily reproducable bugs is usually easy. Not reproducable ones are often like searching for a needle in a haystack and might need multiple iterations of improving runtime information to reveal something more the next time the issue hits.

[blue_painted]

It's not a bug. It's a feature

Duplicated is typically when there's multiple bugs for same issue. Think you meant "could not reproduce". Fixing easily reproducable bugs is usually easy. Not reproducable ones are often like searching for a needle in a haystack and might need multiple iterations of improving runtime information to reveal something more the next time the issue hits.

Dev's cry down the ages .... "Rep steps! Gimme the rep steps!"

[Miketeg]

IMO I just see this as a way to totally abandon the bugs reports that are already on the forum and ask player to use a much complicated way to submit bug reports that won't be looked at.

Bad strategy, one more time.

Giants have to invite SCS for a dinner and discuss about "customer care" and game quality.

[humbe]

The players writing about a bug on forum is very hard for Giants to do anything about. To find actual bugs you need precise info. Possible a complete dump of mods, settings, log file, hardware used, drivers and specific information on everything that happened before the issues hit. Basically everything they need to reproduce the issue.. A lot of the issues are probably caused by mods too which complicate the picture a lot since everyone isnt running the same code. I havent looked at the bug tracker but Im guessing they are trying to collect useful information but that will make it more tedious for players to use.

The players need to decide if they want a system to weed out bugs or just a channel to vent frustrations or identify known issues.

[george.earlslight]

The players writing about a bug on forum is very hard for Giants to do anything about. To find actual bugs you need precise info. Possible a complete dump of mods, settings, log file, hardware used, drivers and specific information on everything that happened before the issues hit. Basically everything they need to reproduce the issue.

That's what a paid tester would be required to do, not a paying customer.
There are people that find it hard to answer any of the above questions, simply because they buy a product that doesn't require all that knowledge. Should they be banned from reporting a product defect? It's the developer's burden to produce a mechanism requiring no more technical knowledge other than what is required to play the game.

A lot of the issues are probably caused by mods too which complicate the picture a lot since everyone isnt running the same code. I havent looked at the bug tracker but Im guessing they are trying to collect useful information but that will make it more tedious for players to use.

And that's what a semi-automated bug report should do. Uploading the log file can automate questions like "were you using mods?".
If log tampering is an issue they could encrypt the file and reject requests with tampered files.

The players need to decide if they want a system to weed out bugs or just a channel to vent frustrations or identify known issues.

Bug reporting benefits both the developer and the user.
When I report a bug that could make a new customer refund the product, the developer has a chance to fix it and avoid future losses in income and reputation.

[this_is_gav]

That's what a paid tester would be required to do, not a paying customer.
There are people that find it hard to answer any of the above questions, simply because they buy a product that doesn't require all that knowledge. Should they be banned from reporting a product defect? It's the developer's burden to produce a mechanism requiring no more technical knowledge other than what is required to play the game.

There are too many bugs that just complain about x and y, and of course it is that simple sometimes, but it's just as common for it to need a specific set of circumstances to get to that point. That's why specific info is required. Not everyone will be able to do it, but frankly if you're capable of playing the game to any real level then you're more often than not capable of submitting a proper bug report.



I do understand the argument that sticking it behind a page requiring registration (which will stop a lot of bugs being reported) and without knowing if the bug has already been reported though. That needs a rethink.

There was a "known issues" thread in the bug reports section after FS19's release, but as I recall it was posted once and never touched again. That sort of info needs a dedicated page before submitting a report and needs to be updated as and when a bug has been proven. Could do with a list of bugs which are being investigated too.

The thread system was poorly managed - lacking in terms of feedback, recognition of reading it at all, requiring info months later and occasionally flat down rejections - but it enabled multiple users to provide more info and feedback on issues that maybe the original poster may have been unable to. I enjoyed trying to replicate reported bugs myself in order to provide more info where possible. Taking it behind the scenes will remove all that and means GIANTS can simply remove bugs from public view.

[TobiHH]

There was a similar discussion in the german section about this new bug tracker. There is another problem with it for a lot of people, because the bug must be reported in english. Every german, french or polish player for example who is not familiar with a foreign language can`t make a proper bug report anymore.

[humbe]

I can't remember having seen another game with any publicly available bug tracker, and all bug tracking systems Ive worked with has had to be private as they have a lot of information that should not be exposed. I guess trying to let others add bugs but with minimal access is a workaround to try and cut down on bug management a bit. Most bugs should be fixed before launch and caught during professional testing, but allowing mods is likely making it a lot harder to test up front..