GIANTS Software - Forum

Mwal wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:28 pm

FarmBoss wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:52 pm
Don't worry, I'm not dissing Giants, I'm sure they're doing the best they can with the knowledge and experience they have. But, given more knowledge and experience, we can see that consoles can keep up with most PCs (minus the high-end computers that people choose to build for themselves)

It’s not knowledge, it’s money. Your comparison likens multi billion dollar companies to a pretty small game developer. Grand theft auto five likely out sold every version of farming simulator combined. Couple that with some of the different ways they have to design there map to work properly then it almost turns the question the other way back to the bigger companies, how is this all we got with the resources you have available?

It is indeed and it's strange that people don't realise this.

GTA V cost around 225 million to make. RDR 2 is estimated to have cost about double that. The team working on Arthur's beard growth is likely to have been bigger than the entire Giants development staff.


It is not likely. It's very definite. GTA V sold 16 million copies in the first 5 days after release. Farming Simulator 19 has sold over one million copies 10 days after launch. That's not even accounting for the cash cow that GTA online has become. You simply cannot compare the scales we are talking about here. FS 17 sold somewhere in the region of over 2 million in total. Sales were much less for previous versions.

this_is_gav wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:21 pm So what about collaborated projects and mod testers? I don't mean the "exclusive tester benefit Patreon, but dedicated mod test teams, like some decent modders have.

I'm not sure if you're trying to test my knowledge on software encryption and security or you're just being curious.
Just to entertain the prior, they could lock the mod on shared keys when the mod owner/leader creates the project, similar to mutual authentication SSL. In any case, if you're working on IT/CE you already know the answer and you know that they can do it if they decide so.

The better question here in my opinion is would there be any benefit to go that way?
Surely some PC players would be furious, but are we that many?
Perhaps a more streamlined experience, without the fuss of checking mod conflicts, shady download sites with trojans, mod theft drama etc is worth it?

george.earlslight wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:44 pm

this_is_gav wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:21 pm So what about collaborated projects and mod testers? I don't mean the "exclusive tester benefit Patreon, but dedicated mod test teams, like some decent modders have.

I'm not sure if you're trying to test my knowledge on software encryption and security or you're just being curious.
Just to entertain the prior, they could lock the mod on shared keys when the mod owner/leader creates the project, similar to mutual authentication SSL. In any case, if you're working on IT/CE you already know the answer and you know that they can do it if they decide so.

The better question here in my opinion is would there be any benefit to go that way?
Surely some PC players would be furious, but are we that many?
Perhaps a more streamlined experience, without the fuss of checking mod conflicts, shady download sites with trojans, mod theft drama etc is worth it?

That would be the end of modding. PC sales account for just under half of total sales.

Whether it's knowledge, time or money, consoles are capable of more than some people think, and more than some companies are capable of.
As for the cost of the machine, a $3000 console would keep up with (if not surpass) a $3000 PC.

FarmBoss wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:13 pm Whether it's knowledge, time or money, consoles are capable of more than some people think, and more than some companies are capable of.
As for the cost of the machine, a $3000 console would keep up with (if not surpass) a $3000 PC.

It would just be a three thousand dollar pc then in a few years a thousand dollar pc then a few after that a 500 dollar pc. At the most basic level it’s just a dumbed down user friendly pc that you have to wait for a company to upgrade instead of doing it yourself. I feel like a 3000 dollar console would sell about 11 units. Why would you deal with the limitations imposed on you by Sony or Microsoft at that point? I like my console and I will buy a ps5 for sure but if you think the current gen are capable of much more than RDR2 your crazy. Any time you get a bunch of people in the same area my PS4 sounds like a low flying plane is overhead.

george.earlslight wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:44 pm I'm not sure if you're trying to test my knowledge on software encryption and security or you're just being curious.

No, I wasn't intending to come across as dramatic and perhaps I ought to have expanded on it.

It's something I've often thought about myself; if I ran GIANTS how would I approach various things, and one of those was thinking of a viable yet fair system permitting (or not) mod edits and collaborations and granting access rights, though my main reason for that thought process was cutting back on mod theft and cheap and basic edits.

Aside from the fact it would require a major change at GIANTS' end, as theSeb said, it's going to put some people off before they even start, and that's the last thing we need.

Comparing what RDR2 or GTA does compared to what FS does is apples to oranges. Those games aren't maintaining a quarter of the info that fs does so they can concentrate more power to better graphics.

this_is_gav wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:33 pm It's something I've often thought about myself; if I ran GIANTS how would I approach various things, and one of those was thinking of a viable yet fair system permitting (or not) mod edits and collaborations and granting access rights, though my main reason for that thought process was cutting back on mod theft and cheap and basic edits.

theSeb wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:45 pm That would be the end of modding. PC sales account for just under half of total sales.

I know I'm probably stirring a hornet's nest with the next statement, but I'll ask anyhow.
What about Payed Mods?
Giants would receive a % of the purchase and the modder would have a chance to earn a proper pay for his time.
This would require Giants to release more robust and documented development tools, curate the for-pay mods with more stringent rules, and set up a refund scheme in case the mod is broken.

I think that would ruin the game.

My greedy side says great. My realistic side says it would destroy modding, certainly on the scripting side. Software benefits from being open. It’s how we learn and make better stuff. If it was paid it would probably have to be closed to prevent theft. Otherwise we are asking for apple developer program level certificates here for development and that’s just not feasible.

george.earlslight wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:14 pm

this_is_gav wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:33 pm It's something I've often thought about myself; if I ran GIANTS how would I approach various things, and one of those was thinking of a viable yet fair system permitting (or not) mod edits and collaborations and granting access rights, though my main reason for that thought process was cutting back on mod theft and cheap and basic edits.

theSeb wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:45 pm That would be the end of modding. PC sales account for just under half of total sales.

I know I'm probably stirring a hornet's nest with the next statement, but I'll ask anyhow.
What about Payed Mods?
Giants would receive a % of the purchase and the modder would have a chance to earn a proper pay for his time.
This would require Giants to release more robust and documented development tools, curate the for-pay mods with more stringent rules, and set up a refund scheme in case the mod is broken.

Giants already provide paid mods in the form of DLC. If modders did it as well, the game wouldn't last long.

Mwal wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:28 pm

FarmBoss wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:13 pm Whether it's knowledge, time or money, consoles are capable of more than some people think, and more than some companies are capable of.
As for the cost of the machine, a $3000 console would keep up with (if not surpass) a $3000 PC.

It would just be a three thousand dollar pc then in a few years a thousand dollar pc then a few after that a 500 dollar pc. At the most basic level it’s just a dumbed down user friendly pc that you have to wait for a company to upgrade instead of doing it yourself. I feel like a 3000 dollar console would sell about 11 units. Why would you deal with the limitations imposed on you by Sony or Microsoft at that point? I like my console and I will buy a ps5 for sure but if you think the current gen are capable of much more than RDR2 your crazy. Any time you get a bunch of people in the same area my PS4 sounds like a low flying plane is overhead.

I was responding to theSeb who said if you played games like GTA and RD2 on a $3000 PC, you'd see the limitations of a console. I was just pointing out that a $3000 console would likely out perform a $3000 PC. I wasn't suggesting it would be a smart purchase.

FarmBoss wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:04 pm

Mwal wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:28 pm

FarmBoss wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:13 pm Whether it's knowledge, time or money, consoles are capable of more than some people think, and more than some companies are capable of.
As for the cost of the machine, a $3000 console would keep up with (if not surpass) a $3000 PC.

It would just be a three thousand dollar pc then in a few years a thousand dollar pc then a few after that a 500 dollar pc. At the most basic level it’s just a dumbed down user friendly pc that you have to wait for a company to upgrade instead of doing it yourself. I feel like a 3000 dollar console would sell about 11 units. Why would you deal with the limitations imposed on you by Sony or Microsoft at that point? I like my console and I will buy a ps5 for sure but if you think the current gen are capable of much more than RDR2 your crazy. Any time you get a bunch of people in the same area my PS4 sounds like a low flying plane is overhead.

I was responding to theSeb who said if you played games like GTA and RD2 on a $3000 PC, you'd see the limitations of a console. I was just pointing out that a $3000 console would likely out perform a $3000 PC. I wasn't suggesting it would be a smart purchase.

The reason why consoles pack such a punch for a relatively low price is because MS or Sony can expect to sell gazillions of units and hence they can order gazillions of components and get good prices. Also, quite often, the actual cost of the hardware is more than the console sells for, because the company expects to recoup those losses from games, since game developers have to pay them to sell console games.

A 3000 USD console would not sell many units and hence would use off the shelf PC parts, so it would be exactly like a PC with the same performance, but with a cut down operating system and limited external peripheral options. However, even with the computing power exactly the same it's very likely that the games could run better on a console, because it's much easier for game developers to optimise their games and for engine makers to optimise their engines for "predefined hardware".

CMDRTAKEDOWN wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:31 am Can only make square maps.
1X= 2 km,2 km, 1 map
4X= 4 km,4 km, 2 maps across and up
9X= 6 km,6 km, 3 maps across and up
16X= 8 km,8 km 4 maps across and up
25X= 10 km,10 km 5 maps across and up and so on.

No such thing as 9x few I've seen called 9x have been 16x.

FarmBoss wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:04 pm

Mwal wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:28 pm

FarmBoss wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:13 pm Whether it's knowledge, time or money, consoles are capable of more than some people think, and more than some companies are capable of.
As for the cost of the machine, a $3000 console would keep up with (if not surpass) a $3000 PC.

It would just be a three thousand dollar pc then in a few years a thousand dollar pc then a few after that a 500 dollar pc. At the most basic level it’s just a dumbed down user friendly pc that you have to wait for a company to upgrade instead of doing it yourself. I feel like a 3000 dollar console would sell about 11 units. Why would you deal with the limitations imposed on you by Sony or Microsoft at that point? I like my console and I will buy a ps5 for sure but if you think the current gen are capable of much more than RDR2 your crazy. Any time you get a bunch of people in the same area my PS4 sounds like a low flying plane is overhead.

I was responding to theSeb who said if you played games like GTA and RD2 on a $3000 PC, you'd see the limitations of a console. I was just pointing out that a $3000 console would likely out perform a $3000 PC. I wasn't suggesting it would be a smart purchase.

I'm a console guy and if Sony wanted 3 grand for the ps5 I would have one killer pc set up instead. Or a car that's rusting apart but thats a different forum.