Chellington Valley

eric21
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Re: Chellington Valley

Post by eric21 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:52 pm

The only problem with letting other people test mods, is theft and uploading them to dodgy websites unfinished and taking credit. The thing is, who to trust

DEERE317
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Re: Chellington Valley

Post by DEERE317 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:06 am

Yet that happens still and those reuploads would be out dated still (and happen post release anyway) And it benefits the creators as the testing pool for PC would be larger and find many of the obvious bugs quite easily. Courseplay and SimpleIC are examples of this.
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Dairydeere
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Re: Chellington Valley

Post by Dairydeere » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:43 am

DEERE317 wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:19 pm
Ok on a related yet unrelated note. Is it me or are most problems with the Modhub and modders miss/poor communication? That and some highly variable quality control. Probably should keep in mind that (I believe) the modhub testers are also GIANTS testers meaning that its more of a "whenever we're not busy" meaning if their busy QC slips but if nothing of GIANTS is getting tested then they can spend their time grammar checking translations.

GIANTS probably could do with a modhub revamp though. (maybe with some form of Beta/community PC testing to lighten the load of "Game doesn't load" errors.)
Communication is the number one thing lacking in these situations. First with the Christmas Eve banning of the large NA modders, then with this situation involving Chellington. From the screenshots of the reasoning of removal from Giants, they're fairly vague beyond the obvious point of a removal from ModHub or banning from ModHub. In both cases, these lead to some overreaction and some rumor about what Giants is doing. All parties involved are at fault, but the modders still bring a very valid point. Why would they, after so many years of modding and passion for the community, bring stolen content right up to Giants and ask them to accept it? Steenkamp, for example, said that the modders involved in the banning would not purposefully upload mods with stolen parts. They did not know those parts were stolen. In the defense of Giants, what are they supposed to believe. And with Chellington, Oxy's map was removed with a brief explanation and some return comments from Giants saying he's abusive. I can probably go on and on about things that need to improve in the FS community, but I'd start to sound like a critic lol. My main point I'd like to make with this brain ramble is that communication between all parties need to be reevaluated and improved. It's led to some major drama in the past month or so
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j_maybury
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Re: Chellington Valley

Post by j_maybury » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:06 am

If Command and Conquer was to make a good base game for modders, Giants would fall flat on their arses in a heart beat, as they deserve NO loyalty what so ever, I am not talking solely about how they are treating Oxy there are many good people that they have rubbed up the wrong way in the past.
I do hope that, that day does come soon... Just bring it on and lets see Giants turn into Minnows.

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Re: Chellington Valley

Post by DEERE317 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:31 am

Dairydeere wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:43 am
DEERE317 wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:19 pm
Ok on a related yet unrelated note. Is it me or are most problems with the Modhub and modders miss/poor communication? That and some highly variable quality control. Probably should keep in mind that (I believe) the modhub testers are also GIANTS testers meaning that its more of a "whenever we're not busy" meaning if their busy QC slips but if nothing of GIANTS is getting tested then they can spend their time grammar checking translations.

GIANTS probably could do with a modhub revamp though. (maybe with some form of Beta/community PC testing to lighten the load of "Game doesn't load" errors.)
Communication is the number one thing lacking in these situations. First with the Christmas Eve banning of the large NA modders, then with this situation involving Chellington. From the screenshots of the reasoning of removal from Giants, they're fairly vague beyond the obvious point of a removal from ModHub or banning from ModHub. In both cases, these lead to some overreaction and some rumor about what Giants is doing. All parties involved are at fault, but the modders still bring a very valid point. Why would they, after so many years of modding and passion for the community, bring stolen content right up to Giants and ask them to accept it? Steenkamp, for example, said that the modders involved in the banning would not purposefully upload mods with stolen parts. They did not know those parts were stolen. In the defense of Giants, what are they supposed to believe. And with Chellington, Oxy's map was removed with a brief explanation and some return comments from Giants saying he's abusive. I can probably go on and on about things that need to improve in the FS community, but I'd start to sound like a critic lol. My main point I'd like to make with this brain ramble is that communication between all parties need to be reevaluated and improved. It's led to some major drama in the past month or so
It would also help if they would give a vague notice somewhere when stuff like this happens, kind of like crime news reports no names really are meant but you know what happened.
Just a “We currently looking some potential DLC content” to head of rumors/reactions.
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Re: Chellington Valley

Post by WolfeUK » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:39 am

If Giants release a mod onto console with any kind of Branding they are the ones liable, not the modder, so for them its a very serious business as it could ruin their company, name and be sued for millions,

Ive seens a few videos of Chellington Valley and its huge with tons of detail, Oxy gave the map to Giants with branding in that shouldn't be, he as a great modder should have known this, im guessing they told him to remove the branding, now none of us know to the extent of what happened, could be that Oxy sent the map back with still more branding left in that he missed, yes, we all make mistakes, but its a mistake that could have finished Giants on console or even be sued for millions, also that map is huge and would probably take hours if not days to check it all out, maybe they've had this map go back and forth a few times, who knows....

Either way both partys are at fault, i just hope in the near future they can start repairing what happened and we can again enjoy another great map of OxygenDavid's
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DEERE317
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Re: Chellington Valley

Post by DEERE317 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:54 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIqg68FAOtQ
It seems the branding slipped through the cracks (along with a lot of other stuff). Also, just because a company can sue for millions doesn't mean that they will or even want to (wouldn't look good to ruin a "kids" game company)

And that actually ties into the Christmas week fiasco, they probably didn't care in any meaningful way, but they have to enforce their copy right or else it looses effectiveness, Sariel's Lego Workshop had to rename to Sariel's Brick & Pets and Tractor Time With Tim had to remove yellow from their logo for that reason. (which in the case of GIANTS would probably be a nice legalese letter to fix it) Or for the Christmas incident was banning the modders from the Modhub, shows their control over copyright, and ultimately didn't permentally hurt the modders (other than feelings and 3D track stuff changing)
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gordon861
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Re: Chellington Valley

Post by gordon861 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:41 am

WolfeUK wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:39 am
If Giants release a mod onto console with any kind of Branding they are the ones liable, not the modder, so for them its a very serious business as it could ruin their company, name and be sued for millions,
Totally agree, but on this occasion it appears that Giants way of informing Oxy of the 'branding issues' was to email back 'There are branding issues that need fixing' with no indication of what these issues actually are. According to Oxy there are 1000's of textures on the map and with no indication as to which ones are at fault it makes it very hard to fix them.

If Giants have located a file with a problem just supply the filename or a screenie to indicate what needs to be fixed and it can be fixed quickly and easily.

Giants seem to operate on the premise that any communications that they send out should be as vague as possible unless it's a press release trying to get you to buy something. Communications from Giants has always been a problem.

norfolk farmer
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Re: Chellington Valley

Post by norfolk farmer » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:12 am

That would seem the sensible way to do things if they know what the offending things are why can't that be pointed out clearly , is their any need too make things harder for modders than it needs to be.

Dal100
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Re: Chellington Valley

Post by Dal100 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:35 am

Well its not getting updated so looks like u will have to just work with it. PF is an issues with painted soil map. But you would think that Giants would of tested that. But looks like they didnt lol

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Re: Chellington Valley

Post by Buhoc » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:52 am

Does giant understand that FS19 without mods is as simple as a kids game? If what they say is true regarding the response to Oxy they didn't understand a thing.

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Re: Chellington Valley

Post by blue_painted » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:55 am

The issues around branding, as I understand it, only affect console releases and are due to the terms that GIANTS works with the console manufacturers Sony and Microsoft, which is why unlicensed brands, Ford and previously John Deere, are available on PC but not console. While the actual brand owners might not sue GIANTS, there is little doubt that the console manufacturers would have no hesitation in taking heavy-handed action if they thought that their reputation was being damaged.

It does seem that relations between GIANTS and modders are worse now than in previous times: For the release of FS17, there were modders given access to ensure mods very soon after launch, this did not happen for FS19. I understand that GIANTS have released a pre-check tool -- things like image file formats, image sizes, redundant files and so on are easy to check for mechanically -- but from what I have seen, the reports of mod test results are sketchy.

GIANTS must know how important mods and modders are, given they have the ModHub in-game and they supply (some) support to modders, with a reward for mods programme as well, so I would that flare-ups like this, and the DLC tracks issue, will be better managed in future.
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Re: Chellington Valley

Post by Leicesterlichtie » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:54 am

I don't think it's just down to this map or OxyD but as a whole maps don't seem to get fully tested as there does tend to be issues upon release of some. I understand there can be mod conflicts but Giants certainly can't allow for that when testing.

I did watch an early map tour of Chellington following PC release and I noticed a couple of big brand names at the services area and wondered if they'd be allowed. These bits to me, add even more realism to the game, but, if it's an an issue with console then fair enough. If Giants were able to highlight the problems in more detail then I'm sure modders would do their best to rectify and submit again.

All modders put in a massive amount of time and effort in to their work (for which we are all eternally grateful). Giants have a testing team to check for compatibility, surely it would be common decency to say that, this, this and this need sorting to possibly pass testing rather than what seems like the current situation here.

Really hope things can get resolved, as losing modders would be to the detriment of the game.

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Re: Chellington Valley

Post by BulletBill » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:32 am

First of to clear up a few misunderstandings some people have mentioned.

Real life brands on a PC mod are not in violation of any brand licensing as the laws on PC are different to those on Console. In Fs17 many PC maps on the Modhub including my own have real life brands on them and this was no issue for GIANTS. Many Fs19 maps on Modhub also have RL brands.

The reason Oxygendavid felt annoyed was this was the very first test report he had received back from GIANTS on the console version, and the message was if you submit it a 2nd time and have a single issue (not even brand related) we will no longer test your maps.
Now this is incredibly harsh, considering before they have said they will test a mod 3 times before giving up, in lots of modders cases they test even more times than that. So why now it's 1 flaw and thats it your out is ridiculous.
Given the fact that GIANTS testers can't even iron out bugs with any of there paid DLCs yet expect perfection from people doing it as an unpaid hobby.

David sent a message back asking why he was not being given more than 1 chance. Myself and many have seen that message including a GIANTS representative and it was not deemed abusive in any way. The reply to that message was the tester had deleted Chellington Valley for PC off the Modhub and told David this was because he had sent an abusive message and all of sudden that he was using objects on his map that someone else was claiming he had no permission to use.

When David asked what the object was he had no reply.
At first even the GIANTS representative who stepped in to help David couldn't get a response other than some vague comments from the tester.
Eventually through the GIANTS rep David was told the object in question. What is ironic about that object is it has been used on many Modhub maps for over a year. So why all of a sudden David can't use it just seems odd.

To date the GIANTS tester has still not replied to David at all.

Quite honestly if a company had a customer service employee dealing with other people in that manner they would risk losing there job for being so unprofessional.

In the end the excuse given for the actions of the tester was he is overworked.
Last edited by BulletBill on Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Buhoc
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Re: Chellington Valley

Post by Buhoc » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:59 am

BulletBill wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:32 am
First of to clear a few misunderstandings some people have mentioned.

Real life brands on a PC mod are not in violation of any brand licensing as the laws on PC are different to those on Console. In Fs17 many PC maps on the Modhub including my own have real life brands on them and this was no issue for GIANTS. Many Fs19 maps on Modhub also have RL brands.

The reason Oxygendavid felt annoyed was this was the very first test report he had received back from GIANTS on the console version, and the message was if you submit it a 2nd time and have a single issue (not even brand related) we will no longer test your maps.
Now this is incredibly harsh, considering before they have said they will test a mod 3 times before giving up, in lots of modders cases they test even more times than that. So why now it's 1 flaw and thats it your out is ridiculous.
Given the fact that GIANTS testers can't even iron out bugs with any of there paid DLCs yet expect perfection from people doing it as an unpaid hobby.

David sent a message back asking why he was not being given more than 1 chance. Myself and many have seen that message including a GIANTS representative and it was not deemed abusive in any way. The reply to that message was the tester had deleted Chellington Valley for PC off the Modhub and told David this was because he had sent an abusive message and all of sudden that he was using objects on his map that someone else was claiming he had no permission to use.

When David asked what the object was he had no reply.
At first even the GIANTS representative who stepped in to help David couldn't get a response other than some vague comments from the tester.
Eventually through the GIANTS rep David was told the object in question. What is ironic about that object is it has been used on many Modhub maps for over a year. So why all of a sudden David can't use it just seems odd.

To date the GIANTS tester has still not replied to David at all.

Quite honestly if a company had a customer service employee dealing with other people in that manner they would risk losing there job for being so unprofessional.

In the end the excuse given for the actions of the tester was he is overworked.
Hear! Hear!

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