A question for modders
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:16 am
This is my first ever post on this forum so please bear with me if this topic has been discussed before.
Before I ask my question I think a brief intro of where I'm coming from is required. I have been playing and building maps for my own use since FS13. Inspired by the work of Bullet Bill and Oxygen David I decided to start contributing to the community and I published two maps for FS17 on the old FS-UK site, Ballydorn and Rathlin Island. Both these maps, however good or bad they may have been, were downloaded many thousands of times so I assume they gave a small amount of entertainment to at least a few people. I converted Ballydorn to FS19 for my own use but then decided to give it to Farmer Klein who released it. I thought there may be a few people out there who will get some pleasure out of playing it and I was right, because much to my amazement and just on the sites which record downloads I counted more than 21000.
I built these maps for the pure pleasure of building them and apart from the structure of the maps every object on them was lifted from other peoples maps. I neither have the software, the time or the skill to build models, but back in FS17 days I didn't need to. Certainly on FS-UK everybody helped everybody else, as long as you gave credit to where you found the models nobody had a problem with them being used, everybody was focused on simply producing bigger and better maps for the community to enjoy. I have never seen a map yet which does not have models or objects lifted from somewhere else, some of them going back so far that no-one would have any idea who first built them or who should receive the credit. There are map makers who have the skill to push the boundaries of this game, whether it be models or scripts, and then there are people like me who can follow behind and simply produce maps which somebody out there might like to play.
I am currently playing Six Ashes, not the released version but one which I have edited beyond all recognition. The initial map was brilliant but I like my maps to be as close to real life as possible and I have added scripts and hundreds of objects from all the best maps around to turn it into a sort of super map. With the release of Chellington Valley all it's best features are now part of Six Ashes. I have no doubt that there are many other people who would love to play this map but of course I will never release it because the original map is not my work.
Now I don't want this to turn into an Oxy v's Giants post (it has nothing to do with that so please respect this) but it was the news that his brilliant map was taken down because he had used a model or models from another map which has prompted this post.
So finally to the question, if I had the skill to build a model or write a script I would not be the slightest offended if someone else used it, in fact quite the opposite. If someone took one of my maps, edited it to their preferences and then re-released it, I would be delighted, it might be just the map somebody else was looking for. Has the Giants Modhub and the lure of a few quid turned this community from the original goal of improving the game, or is it now just a need to seek credit for what I consider to be simply a hobby. Should we not be going back to the days when the modders were a community who helped each other, and I don't mean just a few cliques, I mean the whole FS modding community coming together in something like the old FS-UK. A place where everyone can share experience and new ideas, where we can encourage new modders and help existing ones to reach their full potential. Somewhere that we can see who built a new model or wrote a new script and give them credit when we use it. The number of real modders, the people who put hundreds of hours of work into producing amazing maps and models are a miniscule and select number compared to the number of people who play this game. If you build a brilliant model or write a script and you want credit for it then there should be somewhere you can post it where your fellow modders can get your permission and credit you for its use, is that not a better way forward than stoping a map maker who loved your work from producing a great map.
I spend hours looking for new maps which I can edit for my own use and there are a lot of brilliant maps which do not contain a single original object or script, they just simply work as a brilliant map, but invariably they lose out because they're missing the latest innovations which some other modder has introduced to FarmSim. I don't believe that this is the best way to keep peoples interest in the game, and when people lose interest in a game then there is no longer any purpose for the modders.
I appreciate not everybody wants to build maps, most people just enjoy the game and the maps and models which you the modders create. I have been really pleased to see some of the well known modders coming together to produce amazing advances in the game but at the same time I fear for the day when their mods move towards intellectual property or copywrite or even worse we start to lose the individual modders who lose interest because they can't compete.
It has been said many times and everyone including Giants know it, it is the mods and new maps which make this game the success it is. Maybe this is a question which would be better addressed to Giants rather than the modders, it is certainly a modding environment which they could create, but somehow I feel that modding is something which will grow or wither (excuse the pun) in the hands of the modders.
Before I ask my question I think a brief intro of where I'm coming from is required. I have been playing and building maps for my own use since FS13. Inspired by the work of Bullet Bill and Oxygen David I decided to start contributing to the community and I published two maps for FS17 on the old FS-UK site, Ballydorn and Rathlin Island. Both these maps, however good or bad they may have been, were downloaded many thousands of times so I assume they gave a small amount of entertainment to at least a few people. I converted Ballydorn to FS19 for my own use but then decided to give it to Farmer Klein who released it. I thought there may be a few people out there who will get some pleasure out of playing it and I was right, because much to my amazement and just on the sites which record downloads I counted more than 21000.
I built these maps for the pure pleasure of building them and apart from the structure of the maps every object on them was lifted from other peoples maps. I neither have the software, the time or the skill to build models, but back in FS17 days I didn't need to. Certainly on FS-UK everybody helped everybody else, as long as you gave credit to where you found the models nobody had a problem with them being used, everybody was focused on simply producing bigger and better maps for the community to enjoy. I have never seen a map yet which does not have models or objects lifted from somewhere else, some of them going back so far that no-one would have any idea who first built them or who should receive the credit. There are map makers who have the skill to push the boundaries of this game, whether it be models or scripts, and then there are people like me who can follow behind and simply produce maps which somebody out there might like to play.
I am currently playing Six Ashes, not the released version but one which I have edited beyond all recognition. The initial map was brilliant but I like my maps to be as close to real life as possible and I have added scripts and hundreds of objects from all the best maps around to turn it into a sort of super map. With the release of Chellington Valley all it's best features are now part of Six Ashes. I have no doubt that there are many other people who would love to play this map but of course I will never release it because the original map is not my work.
Now I don't want this to turn into an Oxy v's Giants post (it has nothing to do with that so please respect this) but it was the news that his brilliant map was taken down because he had used a model or models from another map which has prompted this post.
So finally to the question, if I had the skill to build a model or write a script I would not be the slightest offended if someone else used it, in fact quite the opposite. If someone took one of my maps, edited it to their preferences and then re-released it, I would be delighted, it might be just the map somebody else was looking for. Has the Giants Modhub and the lure of a few quid turned this community from the original goal of improving the game, or is it now just a need to seek credit for what I consider to be simply a hobby. Should we not be going back to the days when the modders were a community who helped each other, and I don't mean just a few cliques, I mean the whole FS modding community coming together in something like the old FS-UK. A place where everyone can share experience and new ideas, where we can encourage new modders and help existing ones to reach their full potential. Somewhere that we can see who built a new model or wrote a new script and give them credit when we use it. The number of real modders, the people who put hundreds of hours of work into producing amazing maps and models are a miniscule and select number compared to the number of people who play this game. If you build a brilliant model or write a script and you want credit for it then there should be somewhere you can post it where your fellow modders can get your permission and credit you for its use, is that not a better way forward than stoping a map maker who loved your work from producing a great map.
I spend hours looking for new maps which I can edit for my own use and there are a lot of brilliant maps which do not contain a single original object or script, they just simply work as a brilliant map, but invariably they lose out because they're missing the latest innovations which some other modder has introduced to FarmSim. I don't believe that this is the best way to keep peoples interest in the game, and when people lose interest in a game then there is no longer any purpose for the modders.
I appreciate not everybody wants to build maps, most people just enjoy the game and the maps and models which you the modders create. I have been really pleased to see some of the well known modders coming together to produce amazing advances in the game but at the same time I fear for the day when their mods move towards intellectual property or copywrite or even worse we start to lose the individual modders who lose interest because they can't compete.
It has been said many times and everyone including Giants know it, it is the mods and new maps which make this game the success it is. Maybe this is a question which would be better addressed to Giants rather than the modders, it is certainly a modding environment which they could create, but somehow I feel that modding is something which will grow or wither (excuse the pun) in the hands of the modders.