Console and Giants.

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Mobias
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Re: Console and Giants.

Post by Mobias » Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:21 pm

FarmerLee73 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:44 pm
I would be interested to know if everyone actually thinks that there should be a new FS game or just keep updating the one we have.
They desperately need to bring out a new version. For all the reasons stated in this thread and elsewhere. It just badly needs a make over. I stopped playing FS-19 long ago because I could just never get into it. I've tried a few times to go back to playing FS-17 but that just seems too old now. I get the impression there are quite a few people like me who are stuck in a kind of limbo with the game.

DEERE317
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Re: Console and Giants.

Post by DEERE317 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:13 pm

eric21 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:29 pm
Seems the poll is favoring the older consoles than than the new. We all know with Covid affecting sales on both, especially playstation and not many people have the finances to upgrade. The gen consoles haven't really have taken of yet because of those things.

I reckon they will do an fs21 on both consoles, they won't ditch older consoles anytime soon
Still highly doubt a cross Gen release as FS19 already has been pushing older Gen machines to the max and to not dump them would result in essentially a remade FS19 in some way or another.
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Simon738
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Re: Console and Giants.

Post by Simon738 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:14 pm

When you compare today’s top tier games, Forza, Call of Duty, GTA etc surely the hardware is available to make FS as realistic as possible - is it in fact giants that could be the limiting factor in terms of developing the game/resources/finances etc not criticising in the slightest as I play this game far more than any other and thoroughly enjoy it, just wondered if the ray tracing software etc is extremely expensive to implement?

Look at Microsoft - the new flight simulator is due to be released on Xbox for the first time ever that has the entire world available in a database/server, real world weather etc etc but again, this from a massive corporation that as spent years developing it to be the absolute best it can be.

I really hope they do take FS to the next level and take advantage of the power of these new machines.
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Guil
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Re: Console and Giants.

Post by Guil » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:16 pm

sittinhere wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:03 pm

Agree, if the lifespan is 3 years then it might make sense. Regarding Deere’s post, there was a study to see what the actually ratio was to people owning the Xbox one/PS4 to people having either one s, one x, or PS4 pro. The large majority of people are still on the original. There is a very small portion of gamers on one x or PS4 pro. I agree that last gen is at their limitations but we don’t know if giants is meeting those limitations if that makes sense. One thing they can add and would work across all platforms is ground deformation that is found in the mudrunner games.

With the next gen consoles I’m sure high slot count, more mod storage, possible scripts (I do not see why this isn’t possible now. If you look at Skyrim on Xbox, there are 3rd party scripts that alter a lot of things). Maybe Giants need to develop something to ensure safety of scrips onto consoles. But back to what I was saying, better graphics, more complex physics and systems are likely to be achievable on the new systems.

It’s a tricky place because on one hand if you release only on next gen you would be eliminating a lot of the player base (Chris stated in the farm sim show that console makes 50% of the player base). So with that, how many upgrade or plan to upgrade within the next year or two? First they need to be available at a store. Then on the other hand, if you release cross gen, is there away to have features on all platforms and scale those features based on the hardware. For example. Last gen can have all the features will limitations and next gen has the same features but more flesh out with no limitations.

They could experiment with fs19 now with a next gen upgrade and see what they can do. But maybe the engine itself is at its max. Maybe there is a new engine for the next farm sim. Who knows
Something like this doesn't run properly on a top end pc so hard to see it coming to a console anytime soon. The entire map is changing states all the time in FS so it isn't as simple as just enable mud. Mod storage and scripts are a restriction from console makers, whether that changes or not is up to them

eric21
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Re: Console and Giants.

Post by eric21 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:20 pm

DEERE317 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:13 pm
eric21 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:29 pm
Seems the poll is favoring the older consoles than than the new. We all know with Covid affecting sales on both, especially playstation and not many people have the finances to upgrade. The gen consoles haven't really have taken of yet because of those things.

I reckon they will do an fs21 on both consoles, they won't ditch older consoles anytime soon
Still highly doubt a cross Gen release as FS19 already has been pushing older Gen machines to the max and to not dump them would result in essentially a remade FS19 in some way or another.
Based on what?

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Re: Console and Giants.

Post by DEERE317 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:30 pm

Simon738 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:14 pm
When you compare today’s top tier games, Forza, Call of Duty, GTA etc surely the hardware is available to make FS as realistic as possible - is it in fact giants that could be the limiting factor in terms of developing the game/resources/finances etc not criticising in the slightest as I play this game far more than any other and thoroughly enjoy it, just wondered if the ray tracing software etc is extremely expensive to implement?

Look at Microsoft - the new flight simulator is due to be released on Xbox for the first time ever that has the entire world available in a database/server, real world weather etc etc but again, this from a massive corporation that as spent years developing it to be the absolute best it can be.

I really hope they do take FS to the next level and take advantage of the power of these new machines.
And those games don’t have to handle bale and pallet physics, monitor ground state across 4km^2, or 1.54mi^2, or 988.42ac, and yes it has to handle that all in real time. For those games mentioned essentially they just move a camera attached to a model of a person or vehicle. And in COD also “shoot” when another 3D model is pointed at something and has a button pressed. (Ok that’s oversimplified but they lack many of the resource hogs of FS)
And GIANTS Software as a company has less than 50 employees and I want to say that’s it’s <30. And that includes administration/finances, Chaki, Lisertan, probably have some sort of on staff lawyer/legal team, maintenance (janitorial), atleast 2 testers (I believe I don’t think Chaki or Lisertan do that)
And then for the game a the remainder included some 3D modeling, coding those models in GE, Sounds, and then whatever the remainder is has to code in new features and maintain/improve GIANTS engine. While all of those game studios number in the hundreds of employees.
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Re: Console and Giants.

Post by DEERE317 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:33 pm

eric21 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:20 pm
DEERE317 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:13 pm
eric21 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:29 pm
Seems the poll is favoring the older consoles than than the new. We all know with Covid affecting sales on both, especially playstation and not many people have the finances to upgrade. The gen consoles haven't really have taken of yet because of those things.

I reckon they will do an fs21 on both consoles, they won't ditch older consoles anytime soon
Still highly doubt a cross Gen release as FS19 already has been pushing older Gen machines to the max and to not dump them would result in essentially a remade FS19 in some way or another.
Based on what?
I seem to remember somewhere (on here I think, while before I joined) hearing that.
And my PC is roughly an Xbox One X, so all (last Gen) consoles are weaker and FS19 takes most of its power to run (on max settings) so it’s easy to extrapolate that a weaker console would be getting pushed.

And I doubt what’s now last Gen will be much of the market in a year as the current Gen number s continue to grow.
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Re: Console and Giants.

Post by FarmBoss » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:45 pm

Simon738 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:14 pm
When you compare today’s top tier games, Forza, Call of Duty, GTA etc surely the hardware is available to make FS as realistic as possible - is it in fact giants that could be the limiting factor in terms of developing the game/resources/finances etc not criticising in the slightest as I play this game far more than any other and thoroughly enjoy it, just wondered if the ray tracing software etc is extremely expensive to implement?

Look at Microsoft - the new flight simulator is due to be released on Xbox for the first time ever that has the entire world available in a database/server, real world weather etc etc but again, this from a massive corporation that as spent years developing it to be the absolute best it can be.

I really hope they do take FS to the next level and take advantage of the power of these new machines.
You're likely to trigger some of the usual suspects if you try to compare Giants to other companies, or even suggest their game that struggles on XBox/PS4 due to hardware limitations. The truth is, most other developers know what hardware they have to work with, and make it work just fine. Giants has a harder time making it work because they don't try, or are in too much of a hurry.

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Re: Console and Giants.

Post by DEERE317 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:50 pm

FarmBoss wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:45 pm
Simon738 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:14 pm
When you compare today’s top tier games, Forza, Call of Duty, GTA etc surely the hardware is available to make FS as realistic as possible - is it in fact giants that could be the limiting factor in terms of developing the game/resources/finances etc not criticising in the slightest as I play this game far more than any other and thoroughly enjoy it, just wondered if the ray tracing software etc is extremely expensive to implement?

Look at Microsoft - the new flight simulator is due to be released on Xbox for the first time ever that has the entire world available in a database/server, real world weather etc etc but again, this from a massive corporation that as spent years developing it to be the absolute best it can be.

I really hope they do take FS to the next level and take advantage of the power of these new machines.
You're likely to trigger some of the usual suspects if you try to compare Giants to other companies, or even suggest their game that struggles on XBox/PS4 due to hardware limitations. The truth is, most other developers know what hardware they have to work with, and make it work just fine. Giants has a harder time making it work because they don't try, or are in too much of a hurry.
Most players are used to franchises like COD where common/regular and mostly bug free releases are expected, and they 10x the number of employees and probably 10x the player base.
FS is basically an Indie game, and is being compared to some of the heavy weights of Triple A (or atleast close to it) and it’s apparently a shocker that a small studio maintaining their own game engine has some more bumps on the road of Game Dev. than a larger studio...
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Re: Console and Giants.

Post by Mobias » Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:36 pm

There was an interview a while back from one of the Giants guys who said they would love to have AAA quality graphics in the game but having top quality graphics is very expensive. I think he meant both in the literal financial sense and in the hardware sense.

Like I said before though I'm not really asking for AAA graphics but something on a par with Snowrunner would be great.

You can't really compare FS to many other games. The fact that you can easily edit the game with Giants editor and the way the whole placeables thing now works is very different. For example a game like Red Dead Redemption hasn't been designed from the ground up so you can easily edit it. It means it can be optimised in a way FS can't be. Ditto most other games.

There are indeed very clever things people are doing with the power of cloud computing and maybe somewhere down the road Giants could take advantage of that but it would require a head to toe overhaul and restructuring of how the game works.


Guil wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:16 pm

Something like this doesn't run properly on a top end pc so hard to see it coming to a console anytime soon. The entire map is changing states all the time in FS so it isn't as simple as just enable mud. Mod storage and scripts are a restriction from console makers, whether that changes or not is up to them
You could have some level of deformable terrain in field areas though. Even if it was just quite a subtle visual effect. It wouldn't have to be anywhere near as advanced as the Mudrunner games. Just something to give a ploughed field a bit of a 3D look. I reckon thats do-able.

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Re: Console and Giants.

Post by BoxTunnel » Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:54 pm

Interesting thread and no popcorn moments - refreshing!

As a PC player I hope they push on and make it for the new gen consoles only. However, I realise I can upgrade my PC in increments and at much less expense than forking out for a brand new next gen console. A quick google reveals frightening prices for these things - much more than I spent on a PC that runs FS with ease (although I already had the peripherals.)

I think it all depends on when Giants plan to release the next game and how many players they think will be on the next gen consoles when they do. There is no doubt that a considerable percentage of their income comes from console players so they must bear this in mind. I'm glad it's not my decision.

Summary: Haven't got a clue, ask me one on sport! However, I'll buy the next game anyway.

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Re: Console and Giants.

Post by DEERE317 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:16 pm

Mobias wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:36 pm
There was an interview a while back from one of the Giants guys who said they would love to have AAA quality graphics in the game but having top quality graphics is very expensive. I think he meant both in the literal financial sense and in the hardware sense.

Like I said before though I'm not really asking for AAA graphics but something on a par with Snowrunner would be great.

You can't really compare FS to many other games. The fact that you can easily edit the game with Giants editor and the way the whole placeables thing now works is very different. For example a game like Red Dead Redemption hasn't been designed from the ground up so you can easily edit it. It means it can be optimised in a way FS can't be. Ditto most other games.

There are indeed very clever things people are doing with the power of cloud computing and maybe somewhere down the road Giants could take advantage of that but it would require a head to toe overhaul and restructuring of how the game works.


Guil wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:16 pm

Something like this doesn't run properly on a top end pc so hard to see it coming to a console anytime soon. The entire map is changing states all the time in FS so it isn't as simple as just enable mud. Mod storage and scripts are a restriction from console makers, whether that changes or not is up to them
You could have some level of deformable terrain in field areas though. Even if it was just quite a subtle visual effect. It wouldn't have to be anywhere near as advanced as the Mudrunner games. Just something to give a ploughed field a bit of a 3D look. I reckon thats do-able.
:this:
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DEERE317
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Re: Console and Giants.

Post by DEERE317 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:19 pm

BoxTunnel wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:54 pm
Interesting thread and no popcorn moments - refreshing!

As a PC player I hope they push on and make it for the new gen consoles only. However, I realise I can upgrade my PC in increments and at much less expense than forking out for a brand new next gen console. A quick google reveals frightening prices for these things - much more than I spent on a PC that runs FS with ease (although I already had the peripherals.)

I think it all depends on when Giants plan to release the next game and how many players they think will be on the next gen consoles when they do. There is no doubt that a considerable percentage of their income comes from console players so they must bear this in mind. I'm glad it's not my decision.

Summary: Haven't got a clue, ask me one on sport! However, I'll buy the next game anyway.
Consoles are cheaper than equivalent PC’s, sure you didn’t look at the prices Scalpers are selling them for?
I got my PC in 2019, and is roughly a match for the Xbox One X and payed the same as a One X, but the PC was on a post Black Friday sale as it didn’t sell during Black Friday. And current Gen seems to be very similar in price.
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Re: Console and Giants.

Post by this_is_gav » Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:12 pm

Ravenblade86 wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:15 pm
I'd have to go searching for the article but at the moment it looks like the PS5 alone is on course to have sold 8 million consoles by the end of March and from the little tiny bit that Chaki gave away on the Farm Sim Show yesterday Giants don't have plans to release anything in the current financial year. So assuming the next game comes out late 2021 at the earliest, it's not like the install base on the new consoles is going to be small so.
The problem is that as of a year ago the PS4 alone had "103 million monthly active users".
Source: VentureBeat | PlayStation 5 logo revealed as PS4 surpasses 106 million systems sold

As much as you can blame scalpers and availability for the new consoles, the simple fact is that a global pandemic, which is likely to have effects lasting for many years (financially), means that many people can't or won't make unnecessary and luxury purchases, so a slower uptake is inevitable regardless of availability.

FS desperately needs to be shot of support for the last gen consoles and obviously we've no idea of GIANTS' financial situation or forecast figures for the next game, but the simple fact is that GIANTS might need the revenue of last gen consoles to continue operating. I hate that the next game is likely to be just as gimped as FS19 and FS17 to a degree, but sadly I doubt it can be avoided.

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Re: Console and Giants.

Post by Mobias » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:01 pm

What I don't get though is I think most people agree that FS-19 pushes the last gen consoles as far as they'll go so if thats truly the case whats the point of just releasing what will in effect just be FS-19 all over again? Unless Giants do have some tricks up their sleeve to suddenly get a lot more out of the older consoles.

What would the big selling point of a new game be if its just the same old? The big selling points of FS-19 were JD and dynamic weather plus the whole build a farm game mechanic. Its difficult to see what they could add to that plus make it work on the older machines.

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