Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

TheSuBBie
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Re: Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

Post by TheSuBBie »

Couple of links you might find interesting regarding current trend in game optimisation

https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/the-b ... rformance/

https://developer.nvidia.com/dlss
juf.de
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Re: Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

Post by juf.de »

Well well well, why not such a proper post in the first place. Giants has indeed a long way to go, that's why i changed the viewing distance past the maximum of the ingame options in my game shortly after i bought it to reduce the impact of that circle. The point with the barn has nothing to do with the engine but with the barn if its buyable or with the map if it part of it.
But i feel you with the copy/past part in new games and critized them a long time ago, as did others for releasing a game every other year, remember, they don't only make the pc/console version but a mobile version too. I guess they didn't earn enough with each game (including the dlcs) that they could extend the time inbetween releases before FS19.
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MrSquealypig
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Re: Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

Post by MrSquealypig »

I'm not saying Giants is perfect, there are a lot of things I would like them to do differently. I really wish they had fruit growing in the game, and I wish they would put some more yard-work/lawn care equipment, both of which I have seen people requesting all the way since I started playing in 13, but may never happen. I also wish animals would grow from baby to adult. I would really like it if the minimap showed you the area of the field you already worked, live, as you are driving. And I think it's sad that a farming game didn't even have a hand shovel until a modder made one.

But on the other hand, I have purchased every other farming simulation game ever released on PlayStation, and a bunch of other simulation games for other jobs (bus driver, construction, car mechanic, etc.) and every one of them is objectively worse than FS. They have less activities, less equipment, less brands, less maps, less mod support, worse graphics, more bugs, and so on.

So if every one else is doing a worse job, it became clear to me that maybe the problem isn't Giants, maybe it is just difficult to make a simulation game.

And I'm not saying people should never criticize them, I'm just saying, it is very easy to say "this thing should be easy to add to the game" and "all they have to do is fix this little problem" but if it was so simple, they probably would have fixed it. The working circle is easily the most common complaint from players, if it was so easy to fix, it would have been done long ago.

And if you know what code will fix the problem, you are more than welcome to share, and I am sure one of our community managers would be happy to pass it along.
FarmBoss
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Re: Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

Post by FarmBoss »

One time I took my car to the mechanic, and told him my tire keeps going flat, I have to keep adding air.
He told me that I should let his manager know how to fix it.
TheSuBBie
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Re: Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

Post by TheSuBBie »

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”. ― John Lydgate
Mwal
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Re: Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

Post by Mwal »

FarmBoss wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:37 am
If my opinions don't align with yours, it doesn't mean I'm trolling you. If your feelings are hurt because your Giants Gods have been criticized, it doesn't mean you're being trolled.
Accusing somebody of trolling is a good indicator that you don't have a reasonable response.
Oh it’s definitely not that, it’s more so that you would have us believe Giants is a group of bumbling clowns who only accidentally have gotten this far and had they had their noses to the grindstone I would be doing drive by’s on my sheep and robbing the local credit union. Look at this,
“Giants has had over a decade to work on their optimization. After so many years, we still have a noticeable circle around us while playing”
Do you seriously believe that in a decade the game hasn’t improved?
Or this
“(sorry PC folks, we're not number one anymore). Now, the delay is more likely due to the virus that china shared with the world.”
Very nice, take a dig at pc players, mix in some politics and get a few side arguments going
FarmBoss
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Re: Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

Post by FarmBoss »

"Do you seriously believe that in a decade the game hasn’t improved?"
I don't believe that, and I never said it. It has certainly improved.

I was responding to gav "To properly "optimise" (if such a thing even exists) a game like FS it would probably take the best part of a decade"
I was just pointing out that they've had more than the best part of a decade.
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DEERE317
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Re: Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

Post by DEERE317 »

FarmBoss wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:01 pm "Do you seriously believe that in a decade the game hasn’t improved?"
I don't believe that, and I never said it. It has certainly improved.

I was responding to gav "To properly "optimise" (if such a thing even exists) a game like FS it would probably take the best part of a decade"
I was just pointing out that they've had more than the best part of a decade.
In the 13 years of FS, they’ve released: FS 2008, FS 2009, FS 2011, FS 2013, FS 2015, FS 2017, FS 19, and 4 or 5 mobile games (on both iOS and Android which essentially means 8-10 mobile games as the 2 mobile OS’s are way different) Alobg with dozens of DLC
They’ve went from Fendt and Lizard to almost every major brand of equipment. (Modeling I don’t know how many different Machines)
They’ve went from a couple guys in a basement working on a hobby project to a game studio with around 3-4 dozen total employees (janitor, secretary, finances, community outreach, and other non game dev tasks, and even for game dev the engine teams small, 2 people are on the sounds team, then there’s modeling, map making, etc)
(their budget and staff are tiny compared to many other games)
And all the while they’ve developed, maintained and improved upon a proprietary game engine, which is almost unheard of for game devs to do anymore as it’s expensive.
So it seem like they’ve done a lot in a decade.
And I would call it somewhat unoptimized, if
a. Pretty much any other large open world simulator (out side of stuff like Construction Sim Mobile ports) is just as bad or worse.
And b. If my potato laptop which is barely adequate for FS15 can run it pretty much anything can, so I guess it’s optimized enough...

So yes they’ve had a decade but that’s been a decade doing a bunch of other stuff, they’ve not had an entire dev team optimizing it for a decade like I expect gav was meaning.
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MrSquealypig
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Re: Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

Post by MrSquealypig »

FarmBoss wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:28 pm One time I took my car to the mechanic, and told him my tire keeps going flat, I have to keep adding air.
He told me that I should let his manager know how to fix it.
That's a bad analogy because fixing a tire is possible, whereas eliminating the rendering circle may not be.
Noraf
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Re: Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

Post by Noraf »

If you want to torment your system, you can change the radius to ridiculous distances.

Be aware, it is extremely taxing on the system, and you can really mess up your performance a lot.
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FarmBoss
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Re: Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

Post by FarmBoss »

DEERE317 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:35 pm
FarmBoss wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:01 pm "Do you seriously believe that in a decade the game hasn’t improved?"
I don't believe that, and I never said it. It has certainly improved.

I was responding to gav "To properly "optimise" (if such a thing even exists) a game like FS it would probably take the best part of a decade"
I was just pointing out that they've had more than the best part of a decade.
In the 13 years of FS, they’ve released: FS 2008, FS 2009, FS 2011, FS 2013, FS 2015, FS 2017, FS 19, and 4 or 5 mobile games (on both iOS and Android which essentially means 8-10 mobile games as the 2 mobile OS’s are way different) Alobg with dozens of DLC
They’ve went from Fendt and Lizard to almost every major brand of equipment. (Modeling I don’t know how many different Machines)
They’ve went from a couple guys in a basement working on a hobby project to a game studio with around 3-4 dozen total employees (janitor, secretary, finances, community outreach, and other non game dev tasks, and even for game dev the engine teams small, 2 people are on the sounds team, then there’s modeling, map making, etc)
(their budget and staff are tiny compared to many other games)
And all the while they’ve developed, maintained and improved upon a proprietary game engine, which is almost unheard of for game devs to do anymore as it’s expensive.
So it seem like they’ve done a lot in a decade.
And I would call it somewhat unoptimized, if
a. Pretty much any other large open world simulator (out side of stuff like Construction Sim Mobile ports) is just as bad or worse.
And b. If my potato laptop which is barely adequate for FS15 can run it pretty much anything can, so I guess it’s optimized enough...

So yes they’ve had a decade but that’s been a decade doing a bunch of other stuff, they’ve not had an entire dev team optimizing it for a decade like I expect gav was meaning.
Good point, and well said.
FarmBoss
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Re: Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

Post by FarmBoss »

MrSquealypig wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:58 pm
FarmBoss wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:28 pm One time I took my car to the mechanic, and told him my tire keeps going flat, I have to keep adding air.
He told me that I should let his manager know how to fix it.
That's a bad analogy because fixing a tire is possible, whereas eliminating the rendering circle may not be.
I was trying to make a point that It's not my job to tell Giants how to fix something.
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Luftkopf
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Re: Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

Post by Luftkopf »

I think one of the problems here is word choice. Optimising the code won't change the graphics. The magic circle won't disappear. What you're asking for FarmBoss, is upgrading the graphics engine. Graphical features, multi-threading, etc, are all features with varying degrees of difficulty of implementation. Optimising is just streamlining what is existing. I have no way of judging how optimised the code is, but from my observations on running FS19 on a variety of machines, the optimisation seems fine.

I want better graphics as much as the next person does, and as much as the magic circle annoys me, I'm not going to criticise Giants for where FS19 is at. They've built a fairly impressive system given their resources. And to flog a dead horse, comparing FS19 to GTA V is a bit of false equivalence. It's like complaining that your Xerion can't run the Nürburgring in 10 minutes.
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this_is_gav
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Re: Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

Post by this_is_gav »

DEERE317 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:35 pm So yes they’ve had a decade but that’s been a decade doing a bunch of other stuff, they’ve not had an entire dev team optimizing it for a decade like I expect gav was meaning.
Pretty much. You're probably talking about rewriting much of the engine, then reimplementing all the existing features for the new code base before adding any new ones. All the way throughout significant efforts would have to be made in squashing a vast number of fresh and potentially serious bugs, which itself would probably account for much of the time (and a whole load of new bugs for players).

The rest of the team would either be sat sitting on their hands for a lot of that time (but still need paying) or putting out another game with the same engine and few new features because the coders are busy on almost a completely different game, which certainly wouldn't be popular with players.

As said GIANTS Engine has been amazingly dynamic thus far considering what it started as. The game's premise was simple and the engine was presumably sufficiently simple too, but since then they've continued to add multiple new technologies and features both graphically and for playability. FS19 was pretty graphically advanced technically (how well those effects were used is a different matter though!). Until FS19 came out there wasn't really any CPU limitations (barring mod conflicts, poorly coded script mods or issues with updates).

I don't disagree that some do have issues with FS19's performance even on strong PCs, but I'm at a loss to explain them myself. It can't simply be down to being "unoptimised" otherwise slower PCs would suffer more, and I know from my own experience that an extremely old and tired PC (with a CPU not even from last decade) can quite happily play FS19 at 60fps with lower graphics settings.

It would be nice if the devs could more evenly spread performance out over four or ideally more cores for FS2x, but as not everyone suffers such issues perhaps it would be more beneficial trying to work out if there's a bug, system or driver which causes spiking on a single thread for some.
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Re: Farming simulator 19 vs GTA 5

Post by thegta5android »

FarmBoss wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:40 am I think it boils down to several years of development vs several months of development. Wanting to be the best vs settling for a quick pay day. Finishing what you start vs it's mostly working, time to move on.
Fan accountability vs fans providing excuses.
yes same thinking!
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