RealLifeNumbers and CTF mod

Doc3d
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RealLifeNumbers and CTF mod

Post by Doc3d » Fri May 14, 2021 4:55 pm

I thought I’d ask here, as more people might be interested. I was wondering @kahfs if you have any thoughts or plans to somehow work this into RLN?

For those that don’t know, controlled Traffic Farming mod will force a compaction where if you drive anything bigger than 6.5T, you will leave compaction that need plowing/subsoiling to be cleared, hence making CTF the best option and adds realism. I was thinking that the only downside is that you gain no benefit currently from doing this (apart from being more realistic, I guess). In real life you gain higher yields but at this moment in game you just get the headache of working out how to move around your fields.

Perhaps there is a way RLN could increase yields if CTF is activated and practiced by the user, or something...?

I heard the CTF mod maker loki_79 is working on creating some form of scaling in the compaction, but not sure how far this work has come, or if it’s even possible. Either way, I was hoping for some kind of incorporation of CTF into RLN.

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kahfs
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Re: RealLifeNumbers and CTF mod

Post by kahfs » Sat May 15, 2021 8:01 am

Hello Doc3d
I have not tried out the Controlled Traffic Farming mod yet. It sounds very interesting. This year I have been extremely overloaded with my work and have had very little time to mod or play FS. This situation is going to continue through most of the summer. So I'm not having much hope on adding CTF features (or any other) to RLN. How easy (and quick) it would be to include this depends very much on the goals. If it was sufficient to give an extra yield increment for fields that have been plowed, it would be easy. But if you have to detect the level of compaction all over each field and produce local yield decrease in areas with increased compaction, it would be more complicated (for me at least). But I will try out the CTF mod and assess closer what it would take.
K. Henneberg/ArmChairFarming. Author of FS19_RealLifeNumbers

Doc3d
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Re: RealLifeNumbers and CTF mod

Post by Doc3d » Sat May 15, 2021 8:46 am

kahfs wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 8:01 am
Hello Doc3d
I have not tried out the Controlled Traffic Farming mod yet. It sounds very interesting. This year I have been extremely overloaded with my work and have had very little time to mod or play FS. This situation is going to continue through most of the summer. So I'm not having much hope on adding CTF features (or any other) to RLN. How easy (and quick) it would be to include this depends very much on the goals. If it was sufficient to give an extra yield increment for fields that have been plowed, it would be easy. But if you have to detect the level of compaction all over each field and produce local yield decrease in areas with increased compaction, it would be more complicated (for me at least). But I will try out the CTF mod and assess closer what it would take.
Hey Kahfs. Sorry to hear you’re too busy to play, but hope it has other benefits for you instead. 😊

I only recently tried out the mod, as I was sceptical at first. Having read up a bit about Controlled Traffic Farming, I became interested in using it on my save and as you know, I always use RLN as well and that’s the basis of my initial question. I think it can really benefit the realism in FS once it matures.

As it stands right now, all the mod does is change to a plowed state wherever the wheels of any heavy equipment has rolled over the field, so there is no gradual change, more of a on/off switch. Hopefully Loki_79 can find a way to add this in the future.

Anyways, I would be interested in your thoughts about this new mod when and if you get a chance to check it out.

loki_79
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Re: RealLifeNumbers and CTF mod

Post by loki_79 » Sat May 15, 2021 7:44 pm

Doc3d wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 8:46 am
As it stands right now, all the mod does is change to a plowed state wherever the wheels of any heavy equipment has rolled over the field, so there is no gradual change, more of a on/off switch. Hopefully Loki_79 can find a way to add this in the future.
Hi, thank you all for the interest! :)

I originally wanted to make the compaction proportional to vehicle weight and ground pressure (i.e., number of tyres, wheel width, wheel diameter, dynamic mass, trailer load, etc), and then to make the compaction additive as well. Because the plowing state is only binary, I chose to make the compaction binary for now and see how much interest there was in the idea before taking it any further.

I'm pretty sure I can create variable compaction using the same system that Precision Farming uses for N and pH, but the issue is then how to display it. It is not much use if you cannot see where you need to plow, and using the 'needs plowing' state to display means that it can only ever be on/off, so I would still have to use a threshold for that.

The best idea I have at the moment is to make Precision Farming a prerequisite, and then hijack the display panel from that to show the compaction. Indeed, the zoomed in mini-map from PF would be really useful as well. Without PF installed CTF would behave the same way as it does now, but when PF is detected the more complex compaction would be used. Really the only reason I have not started yet is that there is potentially quite a lot of work involved, and there is always something easier to get done first!

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kahfs
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Re: RealLifeNumbers and CTF mod

Post by kahfs » Sat May 15, 2021 10:44 pm

As FS 22 is coming soon, I would wait with the big plans and go for something simple for now. Increasing the penalty for not plowing/subsoling seems like a good approach for now. If there is an advantage to use certain tires or certain types of equipment that could also be brought into the game. But you are absolutely right in that a graphical display of compaction is needed.
K. Henneberg/ArmChairFarming. Author of FS19_RealLifeNumbers

astro80
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Re: RealLifeNumbers and CTF mod

Post by astro80 » Sat May 15, 2021 11:47 pm

loki_79 wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 7:44 pm
Doc3d wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 8:46 am
As it stands right now, all the mod does is change to a plowed state wherever the wheels of any heavy equipment has rolled over the field, so there is no gradual change, more of a on/off switch. Hopefully Loki_79 can find a way to add this in the future.
Hi, thank you all for the interest! :)

I originally wanted to make the compaction proportional to vehicle weight and ground pressure (i.e., number of tyres, wheel width, wheel diameter, dynamic mass, trailer load, etc), and then to make the compaction additive as well. Because the plowing state is only binary, I chose to make the compaction binary for now and see how much interest there was in the idea before taking it any further.

I'm pretty sure I can create variable compaction using the same system that Precision Farming uses for N and pH, but the issue is then how to display it. It is not much use if you cannot see where you need to plow, and using the 'needs plowing' state to display means that it can only ever be on/off, so I would still have to use a threshold for that.

The best idea I have at the moment is to make Precision Farming a prerequisite, and then hijack the display panel from that to show the compaction. Indeed, the zoomed in mini-map from PF would be really useful as well. Without PF installed CTF would behave the same way as it does now, but when PF is detected the more complex compaction would be used. Really the only reason I have not started yet is that there is potentially quite a lot of work involved, and there is always something easier to get done first!
it's a great idea. i hope to see this upgrade of this mod.

Doc3d
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Re: RealLifeNumbers and CTF mod

Post by Doc3d » Sun May 16, 2021 7:31 am

I don’t see a problem (from a players perspective) to make PF a prerequisite for this, but have no idea how or if it’s possible. By hijacking the display, do you mean rendering CTF info *instead* of PF or in addition? Having to choose either CTF or PF would be less than ideal.

I have no idea what ‘it would take time’ entails but if that means 6 months I agree it might not be worth it for the time spent -and the closer FS22 comes, the less point, I guess. On the other hand, it might become a game changer for the realism-buffs here.

I don’t know how many people have d/l and use this mod, but amount of d/l might give an indication of interest. I’m pretty confident that the people who use this would like a scaleable and detailed version if available/possible

Stone75
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Re: RealLifeNumbers and CTF mod

Post by Stone75 » Sun May 16, 2021 12:27 pm

My apologies for jumping in this post but i have a quick question that is semi related. The mod itself is excellent and love using it. Adds so much for me when planning implement sizes to use on a field to minimize compaction. My question, is there a way to add to the script to make tracked vehicles not add compaction? It would make a lot of sense given its one of the benefits of tracked vehicles and as they are more expensive, would be good to work towards. If it can't be done then fair enough. If its a simple as a line of text in the xml then id love to hear about it. In any case, a big thank you for this mod.

loki_79
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Re: RealLifeNumbers and CTF mod

Post by loki_79 » Sun May 16, 2021 6:53 pm

Doc3d wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 7:31 am
I don’t see a problem (from a players perspective) to make PF a prerequisite for this, but have no idea how or if it’s possible. By hijacking the display, do you mean rendering CTF info *instead* of PF or in addition? Having to choose either CTF or PF would be less than ideal.

I have no idea what ‘it would take time’ entails but if that means 6 months I agree it might not be worth it for the time spent -and the closer FS22 comes, the less point, I guess. On the other hand, it might become a game changer for the realism-buffs here.

I don’t know how many people have d/l and use this mod, but amount of d/l might give an indication of interest. I’m pretty confident that the people who use this would like a scaleable and detailed version if available/possible
It would certainly be in addition to the PF displays, not an either/or choice. I would try to make an extra display option for compaction within PF as the first step, because the display is a basic requirement for the rest to work as far as I'm concerened.

Stone75 wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 12:27 pm
My apologies for jumping in this post but i have a quick question that is semi related. The mod itself is excellent and love using it. Adds so much for me when planning implement sizes to use on a field to minimize compaction. My question, is there a way to add to the script to make tracked vehicles not add compaction? It would make a lot of sense given its one of the benefits of tracked vehicles and as they are more expensive, would be good to work towards. If it can't be done then fair enough. If its a simple as a line of text in the xml then id love to hear about it. In any case, a big thank you for this mod.
I did look at this and I got as far as detecting the currently selected wheel setup (and number of wheels), but then I thought a 20T tracked vehicle should still be causing significant compaction, just less than if it had normal wheels. Ideally I would detect the wheel dimensions, and calculate a ground pressure rather than just relying on the different wheel types. There are already 'care wheels' in the game (thin tyres to avoid crop destruction), but of course these should produce the most compaction of all.

My reasoning for setting 6.5T as the threshold was to make most small and medium tractors fall below the threshold, and the majority of large tractors above. There are some exceptions of course, and it gets even more complicated with the machinery which can be very heavy and also tends to have smaller wheels. Anything with the plow, cultivator or sowingMachine specialisation is exempt from compaction, otherwise the small wheels at the back of seeders would leave compaction tracks!

Stone75
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Re: RealLifeNumbers and CTF mod

Post by Stone75 » Sun May 16, 2021 8:02 pm

Hey Loki, thanks for the response. Tracks add more weight to the unit yet do reduce Psi by more than i'd of thought, especially running 4 tracks over 2. This in effect results in much less compaction but that compaction does run deeper into the soil. Given the number of variables it gets complicated fast :) Like i said, love the mod as it adds a little bit more forward planning to the sim to get the best out of the fields. Appreciate what you have done!

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