I hate being “that guy” but…

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DEERE317
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Re: I hate being “that guy” but…

Post by DEERE317 »

Gormett wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:22 pm
DEERE317 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:09 am It looks worse than FS15 on low graphics. So not sure how that’s better.
I don't think the extended LOD distance and better AO compared to FS can be considered worse.

Must never have maxed out FS before?
DEERE317 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:09 am Has basically no equipment options.
Maybe because it's supposed to be a trainer for real life jobs. We don't need 60 types of tractors with the same physics and behaviour.

I though you were comparing this to FS as a game.
DEERE317 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:09 am Oh and did you notice it’s not a game but a training system? Does it have crop selling, livestock, etc? Also what’s the price.
Yes, I mentioned that in my post. Did you even read what I said ?
Take the liters of crops you're dumping in the selling point and multiply it by the current price, congratulations you have crop selling.
Livestock ? Just make a float value for water, food and make it lose Y value over time. Add integer for the number cows. Spawn X number of cows in the designated area. Wooo, livestock.

So we have to modify this "concretely better than FS" (paraphrased) "game" so it can even be played. What was your point again?
Also whats the price and system requirements?
DEERE317 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:09 am And also doesn’t have Multiplayer.
So you did you even watch the video or what ? "Multi Machine Enviroment - work with others" and another separate video specifically dedicated to this feature.
I read their website, my impression is that you can't play/use on opposite continents.

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I like how you confirmed my comment about how fans like to argue in absolutes "if other game has this, FS shouldn't have it because the other game has it that way and that's the only way"... anyway
Seems like you're arguing in absolutes...
this_is_gav wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:26 pm Sorry, but that looked poor even by 2015 standards. The crops are disappearing in a chunks of several metres at a time. FS crops have always disappeared in a chunks too, but they look much smaller than in that.
I didn't notice a difference between this and FS and you skipped over the extended render distance on foliage. On FS the detail is lost 10m from your player, here the foliage stays sharp even on the opposite side of the field

Definitely not 10M, maxed out FS15 looks better than this.
this_is_gav wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:26 pm I've just skimmed the videos you posted, but I've not seen any dynamic terrain. The best I saw was plough furrows, and FS has done the same since FS2015 I think it was.
I can tell you "just skimmed" the video by the fact that the dynamic terrain is even on the thumbnail and you can clearly see the wheel dropping down into the ridge created by the plow. Farming Simulator still has astroturf even in FS22.
this_is_gav wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:26 pm I think seeing a few square bales being stacked in a publicity video is a bit early to call them stable. You can see the whole stack move when the telehandler just nudged them and they looked just as plastic as FS's bales. Again, I just skimmed, but I only saw a single round bale (which was already on its end) being put on a trailer, so again, zero evidence of how realistic the round bales physics are (single round bales are generally perfectly fine in FS).
I think the fact that this is being sold as professional equipment means it's stable to train people for the real job.
this_is_gav wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:26 pm For all we know this product (even if it has the features you or they claim) might cost £50,000 and need server-grade hardware to run it - certainly if they're running that many screens at once then it wasn't being run on a normal PC.
They do have a desktop package which includes the wheel, screens, wheel and pedals, shifter. No PC included so i think it's safe to say it can run on consumer grade hardware. And modern PCs are capable of running multiple screens at once, no need for server grade hardware, it also depends on the resolution of the screen and at that distance 1080p is sufficient.
https://www.tenstarsimulation.com/simul ... igurations

Consumers grade hardware includes RTX 3090's and other Prosumer cards, and a company buying this program, probably wouldn't flinch handing out 5k for a system to run it. And multiple screens means alot more processing power.
this_is_gav wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:26 pm I'm sure all of the things you list are doable, but if you're going to need a top of the line CPU and two GPUs (one for graphics and one for physics) then you'd eliminate 95% of players and have most of your employees being made redundant.
But you do need a high spec cpu and gpu for Farming Sim anyway if you want it to look good at high framerates due to nonexistent optimization. We're only now getting multithread support and view culling so it's not like the previous games were made for low end hardware.

:lol:
A i5-9400F, 8GB or RAM, and a GTX1660TI are so high spec... (sarcasm, they were low mid tier 2-3yrs ago) I run FS19 maxed out with way more mods than I should with that.
Please read my comments within this giant block of quoted text.
Also have you ever played FS15 maxed out? It looks 100x better than that simulator.
FS15 & FS19 Platinum Edition PC (and War Thunder, Gaijin is way worse than GIANTS ever has been accused of being)
FS Comunity Trader: https://fs19communitytrader.freeforums.net/
Desktop: i5-9400f, RTX 2060, 8gb RAM, 256gb SSD.
Laptop: Pentium Silver N5000, UHD605, 4gb RAM, 1tb HDD.
Deere, Fendt, Claas, and sometimes the rest of Agco.
Illinois Farmer
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Re: I hate being “that guy” but…

Post by Illinois Farmer »

I for one do not want to spend time on a video changing a tire or other maintenance. I wouldn't be opposed to damage showing, but let me click a button and it is fixed.
1300 acre farm, finish out just about 10,000 hogs a year, 200 cattle, and xbox one and pc user.
Mwal
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Re: I hate being “that guy” but…

Post by Mwal »

Illinois Farmer wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:08 pm I for one do not want to spend time on a video changing a tire or other maintenance. I wouldn't be opposed to damage showing, but let me click a button and it is fixed.
Agreed, fixing stuff *censored*
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this_is_gav
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Re: I hate being “that guy” but…

Post by this_is_gav »

Gormett wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:22 pm I didn't notice a difference between this and FS and you skipped over the extended render distance on foliage. On FS the detail is lost 10m from your player, here the foliage stays sharp even on the opposite side of the field
Any extended foliage distance means bugger all if the rest of the product looks gash or immersion is lost. It's fine for a training platform (where foliage distance shouldn't matter anyway), but not a product trying to reach millions of players.

But yes, GIANTS can hopefully do something in this regard though as the crop circle was far too obvious and quite annoying with FS19. FS22's blending looks much better, but we've only seen static screenshots and for all we know they could have bumped up the foliage distance to 1000% and taken the screenshot at 1fps.


Gormett wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:22 pmI can tell you "just skimmed" the video by the fact that the dynamic terrain is even on the thumbnail and you can clearly see the wheel dropping down into the ridge created by the plow. Farming Simulator still has astroturf even in FS22.
Oh so that was it. FS17 and 19 has exactly that, and I seem to recall playing Thornton Farm on FS2015 with it too (though it may have been a mod, I think a GIANTS mod?). It's not dynamic terrain, it's just a script-based approximation. Dynamic terrain would be real-time terrain shifting on every part of the map - something I don't think any game has ever done and I've seen nothing in this to suggest otherwise either.


Gormett wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:22 pmI think the fact that this is being sold as professional equipment means it's stable to train people for the real job.
That's an assumption. Because there is no public facing platform and the only real footage is from the company producing the product and is extremely limited (again, a single round bale already on its end) would ordinarily raise questions rather than breed confidence.


Gormett wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:22 pm They do have a desktop package which includes the wheel, screens, wheel and pedals, shifter. No PC included so i think it's safe to say it can run on consumer grade hardware.
If you can only buy it with the wheel and screens and so on then it's definitely not my definition of "consumer grade hardware" in any way, shape or form, especially if there are no minimum or recommended specifications.


Gormett wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:22 pmAnd modern PCs are capable of running multiple screens at once, no need for server grade hardware, it also depends on the resolution of the screen and at that distance 1080p is sufficient.
I know, I run a multi-screen set-up myself. When even consoles do 4K as standard and many gamers crave 144Hz+ screens and there is a continuing growing trend in ultra-wides, I don't think many will find 1080p as anything other than ordinary. Even on my 1440p main screen 1920x1080 looks either really restrictive and small or badly stretched depending on how it's set up.

Trying to use 4 screens at a respectable resolution and frame rate isn't going to be something 90%+ of FS players could do at the moment.


Gormett wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:22 pm But you do need a high spec cpu and gpu for Farming Sim anyway if you want it to look good at high framerates due to nonexistent optimization. We're only now getting multithread support and view culling so it's not like the previous games were made for low end hardware.
You can also use a CPU that is a decade old (i7 920) and a GPU that is nine years old (GTX 670) (my second PC) and do 1440p and still get constant 60fps. Not at top quality, but decent quality. I'd say that's bloody well optimised in that particular usage scenario.

PS FS19 does do multi-core. It can't (and probably never will) ever be all core (extremely few products are), but usually uses between 2 and 4 cores. Not always well, but I don't know where this assumption that FS is single-threaded has come from. I don't know if FS has ever been single threaded.

That said, it does have some way to go in terms of optimising for all (AMD graphics cards particularly) and core and thread optimising is something that is on the list of changes for FS22, though it will only be on release we can judge how much has changed if anything.
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