Constructive feedback thread for FS22

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this_is_gav
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Constructive feedback thread for FS22

Post by this_is_gav »

Following today's podcast, the purpose of this thread is for constructive feedback only. I'd like this thread to stay to the point and ranting posts aren’t welcome here and I hope mods will remove any such posts if they’re reported.

The thread isn’t for equipment or brand requests (like “I want a trailed bale collector”) but suggestions for changes to game style, functions or new additions are welcome.

Even if GIANTS want to it’s unrealistic to expect every or even many changes to be made in time for release as it’s so close, but if that’s the case hopefully GIANTS aim to include some in a future patch or make a note for the next game.

I’ll start the ball rolling with a few myself, and encourage others to add their own – but try to be constructive and site a source if necessary, for example a Youtube videos with a timestamp or links to screenshots if it helps emphasise your example.
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this_is_gav
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Re: Constructive feedback thread for FS22

Post by this_is_gav »

Trees are universally too bright:
Trees, particularly tree foliage, should be darker than seen in most scenes seen so far, especially in spring, summer and autumn colours. The autumn ones especially almost look like they were glowing. There’s a lack of shadow definition on the trees. This is especially jarring with a mix between close and distance trees, where the distance trees probably don’t have a shadow for performance reasons, but if they were darker to start with like in reality then it wouldn’t be so much of an issue and wouldn’t stand out as badly (I’ve seen them described as blobs in the background, which isn’t a bad way of explaining them). An example of the distance trees especially looking too bright: https://image.giants-software.com/1/fmcnyUfj.jpg



Crop foliage is too saturated:
Wheat and barley for example are rarely a brightish yellow when ripe – they’re closer to a dullish beige. When ripe they’ve lost a lot of water and are drying out, so imagine a dying dried up plant and you’ll be closer to the actual colour than currently.



Cut grass texture should almost be yellow:
The grass left behind after mowing (the grass still in the ground) isn’t usually a dark green, but instead looks much lighter compared to the grass which is waiting to be collected. While not universal, this sort of grass contrast is much more common:
https://www.alamy.com/mowing-grass-in-a ... 70385.html



Windrows are very small:
In the scene in the GamesCom trailer and other videos the windrows look far too small even compared to the small Massey tractor and baler. With bigger vehicles and implements they will look tiny. They should be wider, taller and give more of an impression of depth and volume.



Skies should never be white, blue sky precipitation and night skies:
The skies look better than FS19, but the directional changing is too stark. The deeper blues aren’t too bad in FS22, but views like this are only seen through cameras which lack the dynamic range of the human eye: https://www.farming-simulator.com/cms/u ... d8066d.jpg

You’ve also got scenes like the below one where precipitation is falling, yet much of the sky is blue. This can happen for localised light showers, but normally the rain and snow falling in the distance will block out such views. Some sort of distance darkening and blur (or mist) for the heavier showers would help this, and help performance too if it they be take advantage of the occlusion culling, perhaps allowing more scope for things like water on windows, puddles and so in the future.
https://www.farming-simulator.com/cms/u ... d9af76.jpg

The moon is far, far too bright. The light emitted is too extreme. Obviously light does bounce off the moon and is cast onto the ground in real life, but it’s a very soft and subtle diffused light, whereas in the following screenshot the moon lights up the whole sky and provides far too much light at ground level. This might be something some players want as it might make it easier to play when it’s light in their home but night in-game, some monitors portray dark colours better than others, so it would be good if it could be tied to the suggestion “Environment settings should be player-specific, not map-specific” below, or maybe an in-game menu option to temporarily artificially boost the brightness settings if needed for night play, rather than having to quit the game first.

These are screenshots of night time from the first German stream after GamesCom (it was this Twitch user, but I can't find the video now):
https://image.giants-software.com/1/zu7NY7k9.jpg
https://image.giants-software.com/1/n3rHhJTa.jpg

Either they aren't at night, in which case there should be more light on the ground (there is a fair bit of light before sun rise and after sun-set) or the night sky is way, way too bright and indeed blue.



Environment settings should be player-specific, not map-specific:
We all have different grades of monitors and TV, different technologies (e.g. TN, VA, IPS, OLED, etc.) and very different tastes. Some players might prefer a natural looking-environment, others a more vibrant one. Encourage mappers to create their own environment settings so their map can look like they want it to, but allow players to override it with either one from another map or from a separate mod or user-defined in some way.

There’s a mod Additional Game Settings which allows PC players to choose an environment style from any installed map on the fly for FS19. Perhaps consider some functionality like this as standard in the base game, so both PC and console players could choose their own environment style for any map.



The environment itself:
The whole directional light thing in FS19 was way over the top, crushing either highlights or shadow depending on which way you were facing with very little in way of balance in between. It often made it difficult to see the ground you were working on. If it’s in FS22 too then hopefully it can be turned off or lowered, or limited to first person mode where it's slightly more realistic, rather than third person.

Others are better at explaining the nuances of the saturation, brightness and balance, so hopefully someone else can fill that side of things in better than me. I’ll just say that the tone is too saturated below the skyline. If you haven’t already, take a look at OxygenDavid’s screenshots of his Calmsden map, seen here in FS19: viewtopic.php?p=1408108#p1408108



Consider moving map-specific region mod settings to be available separately:
Rather than having region specific settings in a map, consider encouraging modders to upload them as separate mods, linked as recommended for a map if necessary.

Things like license plates and GEOs could then be chosen by players for use on generic maps or other regions. Depending on how warning signs are done (if they’re not as a vehicle option for example, but are map specific) then they too could be used elsewhere.

New crops too could be released separately too. They could set as required on the ModHub for certain maps, but could be downloaded separately to work on any map too. Then allow players to choose which crops can be used through a gamesave (eg a so cotton isn’t seen on a Northern European map, but they could choose say carrots or something and associated equipment from a mod.

Going further, possibly into the realms of fantasy, perhaps even reversal of roads on generic maps, with left and right-hand drive vehicles and AI traffic which can drive on either the left or right of the road dependant on what the player wants. Maybe even the style of road-side signs could change with them, so for example Elmcreek could almost become and Australian map at the click of a button.



Vehicles and equipment are lacking depth and detail:
Not in a polygon sense, but I think due to the extreme saturation and vibrancy crushing the detail. It’s like there’s no ambient occlusion or normal maps on the models so everything looks extremely flat and shiny rather than having depth or substance. Again the small baler example is good for this, as perhaps is one of the reasons why the John Deere 9RX interior looks very low quality?:
https://youtu.be/lP5f9xxMREs
https://image.giants-software.com/1/kNbEpJS5.jpg



Allow "Game Settings" to have default values:
I change the in-game "Game Settings" in the escape menu every time I start a save or test a map. It would be good if these could be either remembered or for a screen to set up some defaults in the main game options, and then over-ridden in the in-game settings if necessary.



All fields could be livestock pastures in waiting:
I’d hoped the addition of custom fences and hedges in game would allow us to create our own livestock enclosures, rather than having pre-built ones. This would allow map-makers to have any enclosed field as a potential livestock enclosure and for players to create their own from scratch or by merging fields. E.g. for a sheep enclosure a minimum requirement would be a water trough, a feeding trough (and/or grazing) and somewhere for the wool to spawn (or have central spawning point for all fields somewhere). These would all be placed by the modder or player in any field which is fully enclosed (for in-game creation with either the navmesh created dynamically or painted using the landscaping tool).

It would be good if livestock didn't move through equipment and bales too, though not to the point where driving at one would stop a vehicle instantly, like hitting the traffic does.



Hired helpers shouldn’t be reversing through crops:
I was hopeful the “more realistic helpers” would have helped aspects like this, but the unrealistic turning at headlands is still an issue. In the video below the combine gets to the headland, reverses straight, then goes forward straight, then reverses through the crop, moves forward through the crop, reverses through the crop and finally starts harvesting again. Obviously proper headland support (allowing helpers to cut headlands first, or leave that area until last for ploughs and drills and so on) would allow for more room for better handling of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP5f9xxMREs

In FS19 there is another issue at the end of rows, where tractors would often get to the end of a row, reverse back and then drive forwards turning in a massive arc to line up with the next row. While not possible for every tool, perhaps allow some implements to instead turn more like the combine example above (except without the needless moving back and forwards in straight lines).



Add a text description to crop icons:
For an update in FS19 you added a text description to the fill type on the HUD, which was great but is missing in FS22 at the moment. Even for regular players the icons aren’t always obvious, and must be overwhelming for a new player. It would be good if such text (or tool-tips) was added to the crop prices screen and anywhere else too.



Map sizes in future:
More for the next game, but if the playable area of a map is bigger or smaller than the standard map, allow the PDA and map in the escape menu to only show the playable area. So far example if someone makes a map on a 4X map, but the playable area is only effectively 3km x 3km with the rest reserved for distance scenery, then the in-game map would only show the 3km x 3km playable area. This would work with maps smaller than the standard map size too.
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Mobias
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Re: Constructive feedback thread for FS22

Post by Mobias »

Excellent thread this_is_gav. You've covered most of my observations/criticisms.

A little thing I'd like to see. We seem to have the same largely static farmer driver avatar from FS-19. The addition of the foot pedal animations for that game were a nice little detail which I think added to the sense of immersion. With FS-22 I thought we'd get a bit more development of that so for example if you reverse the driver leans round and turns his head to look behind him. Most games that involve driving have this little detail in the third person avatar. Snowrunner has it particularly well implemented. Its a shame Giants haven't done this for FS22. I would have thought it would be a relatively easy addition. FS is a game that involves a lot of reversing after all.
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Re: Constructive feedback thread for FS22

Post by garyst »

I would have to think the game has to be nearly complete and giants probably doesn't have much time to change too many things. With the massive delays in shipping lately because of covid they would have to be shipping off the hard copies of this game to retailers soon if they want any chance of fs22 making to retailers in time for November 22nd. Any big changes would probably have to be included in an update after the game releases.
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Re: Constructive feedback thread for FS22

Post by blue_painted »

Please, please please reconsider three-day seasons
Farming is generally cycles within cycles within cycles: There's a year, which is seasons, which have months, which (have weeks?) have days ... if harvest is reduced to one summer day then the whole "getting up with the sun, working into the night" feeling and immersion of long harvest summers is gone, and if winter is just two or three days, why bother to plough the snow?

Sleep anytime
It's not "sleep" really - it's down-time when there's no farming to do so don't do any: just don't put a restriction on when the player can "sleep"

Regional settings in maps
Slightly expanding Gav's point above: settings like currency unit, measurements etc. should be part of the map, so that in a USA map it's dollars, pound and miles, in UK its pounds, kilo and miles, in Europe, Euro, kilos and kilometres, and so on: whatever the modder sets.

New player models are promising!
Not all farmers at mid-20s, in fact you'd probably find a normal distribution cantering around mid-40s in age. And, sad to say, we are not all beautiful (looking) people!

Note to Gav: I hope this aligns with "constructive" feedback and hasn't wandered too far into "wishlist"
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Kerminator
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Re: Constructive feedback thread for FS22

Post by Kerminator »

this_is_gav wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:20 pm Following today's podcast, the purpose of this thread is for constructive feedback only. I'd like this thread to stay to the point and ranting posts aren’t welcome here and I hope mods will remove any such posts if they’re reported.

The thread isn’t for equipment or brand requests (like “I want a trailed bale collector”) but suggestions for changes to game style, functions or new additions are welcome.

Even if GIANTS want to it’s unrealistic to expect every or even many changes to be made in time for release as it’s so close, but if that’s the case hopefully GIANTS aim to include some in a future patch or make a note for the next game.

I’ll start the ball rolling with a few myself, and encourage others to add their own – but try to be constructive and site a source if necessary, for example a Youtube videos with a timestamp or links to screenshots if it helps emphasise your example.
This is great Gav. Thanks for sharing and getting this started. And thanks to Ambassador Derp for sending us the link to the thread.
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Re: Constructive feedback thread for FS22

Post by Kerminator »

blue_painted wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:29 pm Please, please please reconsider three-day seasons
Farming is generally cycles within cycles within cycles: There's a year, which is seasons, which have months, which (have weeks?) have days ... if harvest is reduced to one summer day then the whole "getting up with the sun, working into the night" feeling and immersion of long harvest summers is gone, and if winter is just two or three days, why bother to plough the snow?

Sleep anytime
It's not "sleep" really - it's down-time when there's no farming to do so don't do any: just don't put a restriction on when the player can "sleep"

Regional settings in maps
Slightly expanding Gav's point above: settings like currency unit, measurements etc. should be part of the map, so that in a USA map it's dollars, pound and miles, in UK its pounds, kilo and miles, in Europe, Euro, kilos and kilometres, and so on: whatever the modder sets.

New player models are promising!
Not all farmers at mid-20s, in fact you'd probably find a normal distribution cantering around mid-40s in age. And, sad to say, we are not all beautiful (looking) people!

Note to Gav: I hope this aligns with "constructive" feedback and hasn't wandered too far into "wishlist"
The solution to include the option for 3, 6 & 9 day seasons are the lower timescales of .5x & .33x so using these you get 24x24 hours and 36x24 hours instead of the 22 standard of 12x24.

Sleep anytime is a thing in 22, you can choose what time the next day you want to wake up and can do this at anytime of day, even right after advancing it.

For the regional settings for things like currency, etc, I'd imagine that on our end we'd like to keep it as a universal setting because not everyone who plays knows the conversions and would prefer to play the game with the units they are used to.

There's more to come on player customizations soon.

Thanks for your feedback Blue

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Mobias
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Re: Constructive feedback thread for FS22

Post by Mobias »

garyst wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:27 pm I would have to think the game has to be nearly complete and giants probably doesn't have much time to change too many things.
Its very late in the day for sure. I don't think the idea of this thread is to be unrealistic in our suggestions. Its more for fine tuning things and making little changes that might make all the difference.
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Re: Constructive feedback thread for FS22

Post by Kerminator »

Mobias wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:57 pm
garyst wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:27 pm I would have to think the game has to be nearly complete and giants probably doesn't have much time to change too many things.
Its very late in the day for sure. I don't think the idea of this thread is to be unrealistic in our suggestions. Its more for fine tuning things and making little changes that might make all the difference.
We're happy to hear any and all feedback, I just always like to stress that on our end, we have to decide from your feedback what is achievable and sustainable.

No idea is a bad idea, just not all ideas will be possible due to various reasons. But we do want to hear them as our job as the Community team is to listen to the Community and forward your feedback and feelings about the game to our colleagues at the company.
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Re: Constructive feedback thread for FS22

Post by Earnest Pea »

this_is_gav wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:22 pm Skies should never be white, blue sky precipitation and night skies:
The skies look better than FS19, but the directional changing is too stark. The deeper blues aren’t too bad in FS22, but views like this are only seen through cameras which lack the dynamic range of the human eye: https://www.farming-simulator.com/cms/u ... d8066d.jpg
I agree with nearly everything you've said with one exception. Although I agree that skies should never be white, the image which you've included seems to show haze or fog which could give the impression of a somewhat white sky. It may be that you've chosen a bad image to depict your point.

Great thread and I think this could really help.
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Re: Constructive feedback thread for FS22

Post by Miketeg »

Not "in game" directly, and maybe that has already been covered, but please, rise (by a lot) the filltype / heightype limit to make sure that all futures mods (maize plus, straw harvest, bale addon, etc.) that add filltype will works perfect the first time.

Since you have your hand in the code, i'm sure you can increase the filltype to 100+ out of the box, that will save lot of frustration in 1-2 years.

Thanks :-)
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Re: Constructive feedback thread for FS22

Post by blue_painted »

Kerminator wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:55 pm
blue_painted wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:29 pm Please, please please reconsider three-day seasons
Farming is generally cycles within cycles within cycles: There's a year, which is seasons, which have months, which (have weeks?) have days ... if harvest is reduced to one summer day then the whole "getting up with the sun, working into the night" feeling and immersion of long harvest summers is gone, and if winter is just two or three days, why bother to plough the snow?

Sleep anytime
It's not "sleep" really - it's down-time when there's no farming to do so don't do any: just don't put a restriction on when the player can "sleep" (And also I use 12 day seasons, for BIG farms!)

Regional settings in maps
Slightly expanding Gav's point above: settings like currency unit, measurements etc. should be part of the map, so that in a USA map it's dollars, pound and miles, in UK its pounds, kilo and miles, in Europe, Euro, kilos and kilometres, and so on: whatever the modder sets.

New player models are promising!
Not all farmers at mid-20s, in fact you'd probably find a normal distribution cantering around mid-40s in age. And, sad to say, we are not all beautiful (looking) people!

Note to Gav: I hope this aligns with "constructive" feedback and hasn't wandered too far into "wishlist"
The solution to include the option for 3, 6 & 9 day seasons are the lower timescales of .5x & .33x so using these you get 24x24 hours and 36x24 hours instead of the 22 standard of 12x24.

Sleep anytime is a thing in 22, you can choose what time the next day you want to wake up and can do this at anytime of day, even right after advancing it.

For the regional settings for things like currency, etc, I'd imagine that on our end we'd like to keep it as a universal setting because not everyone who plays knows the conversions and would prefer to play the game with the units they are used to.

There's more to come on player customizations soon.

Thanks for your feedback Blue

-Kermit
Kermit, thanks for your response. I don't want to derail this useful thread into lengthy discussion/argument so this is the only reply I'm going to make on these topics:

Seasons length
I think slowing time misses the point - we won't get nights and days passing, just one very looooong day in which to do an entire year's harvest. Still, I can hope that a mod will change this. (And also I use 12 day seasons for BIG farms!)

Sleep
Excellent! *thumbsup*

Regional settings
Okay, let players choose their own BUT save those settings in the saveGame. (People *really* want to play dollars in Germany? Euros in Nebraska? Really?)

Players
Excellent! *thumbsup*
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Re: Constructive feedback thread for FS22

Post by chedly_farms »

I personally don't see myself buying the new game as it has been shown in recent weeks. It's really not groundbreaking in anyway that makes me go "WOWZERS!". That being said. this thread is a step in the right direction if someone reads it and takes it seriously. I understand that I am probably not the target audience with how the game looks either. Hopefully these issues will be addressed at some point as to why they are they way they are and if they are looking to change them. But seeing as how some issues were addressed on 19, I am not hopeful. I would love to buy the game at some point. But 19 really wasn't enjoyably played for me until May of 2019. There were a lot of bugs and the lack of cool mods really made the game feel unfinished. So I am hoping to avoid that this time around.

Also, locking players into a three day season no matter the time scale is a really horrible miscalculation. For players that like to do dairy, and chopping corn and doing silage and hay in big numbers, we'll harvest a big crop once, and not have to do another harvest for three to ten in game years? lol.
Last edited by chedly_farms on Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Constructive feedback thread for FS22

Post by Kerminator »

chedly_farms wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:24 pm I personally don't see myself buying the new game as it has been shown in recent weeks. It's really not groundbreaking in anyway that makes me go "WOWZERS!". That being said. this thread is a step in the right direction if someone reads it and takes it seriously. I understand that I am probably not the target audience with how the game looks either. Hopefully these issues will be addressed at some point as to why they are they way they are and if they are looking to change them. But seeing as how some issues were addressed on 19, I am not hopeful. I would love to buy the game at some point. But 19 really wasn't enjoyably played for me until May of 2019. There were a lot of bugs and the lack of cool mods really made the game feel unfinished. So I am hoping to avoid that this time around.
Fair enough, thanks for sharing Chedly.
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Re: Constructive feedback thread for FS22

Post by Kerminator »

Blue:

Seasonal Cycles:

This was done by Jos, who is the lead at GIANTS for Seasonal Cycles to better integrate this feature and optimize it into the base game. He previously worked with Realismus Modding on the Seasons mod you are used to.

We've been very clear in the past that if a "seasons" type of thing were to be added in to FS that it would not be as in depth and hardcore as the mod, because we don't want to force these more "hardcore" features on people.

That's why it's Seasonal Cycles coming to 22 and not Seasons. We love the mod community, and I'm sure someone will create something rather quickly for those who are wanting an experience more along the lines that they're used to with the Seasons mod.

Regional Settings:

This is a question I can only answer based on my preference, and my preference is to always have it set to the units that make sense to me. I'm sure there are some who would like to see it change based on the map region, and there are also others like me what want to use what makes sense to them so they don't have to fuss over learning new units & conversions.
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