Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Seedy
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Re: Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Post by Seedy »

So, has anyone actually done the numbers for how much a pig eats over how much it gains in value etc.? It seems obvious that you can sell whatever you grow for more than pig food costs, so you can base cost of feed on a fixed number, and the price you get for a pig at a certain age appears to be fixed.
Seedy
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Re: Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Post by Seedy »

I have done a quick test on the different pigs. They eat exactly the same, they use straw the same, generate slurry the same. All reproduction is 1:1.
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hun3
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Re: Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Post by hun3 »

I think currently horses dont reproduce but I dont know for sure if its a bug. If its a feature you can profit from them with breeding.
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kahfs
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Re: Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Post by kahfs »

The problem with pigs is that a Giant sow only gives birth to ONE piglet every four months. Dansk Landrace gives about 14 piglets every 4 months, or 28 piglets in a year to be more accurate.

The Seasons animal model by Realismus Modding was a bit more sophisticated, giving multiple piglets each time.
K. Henneberg/ArmChairFarming. Author of RealLifeNumbers (FS19, FS22)
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FarmCatJenkins
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Re: Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Post by FarmCatJenkins »

I agree with kahfs. Pig reproduction being a 1:1 ratio is a bit sad, as the only real way to make money on pigs is to sell offspring. Realismus made them in 19 so you could make a killing off of pigs.
Farmer since birth. Simulated since ‘15

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mackintosh
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Re: Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Post by mackintosh »

I haven't crunched the numbers on account of having very little time on my hands but having played around with pigs for several seasons now, it seems that other than the side hustle of slurry and manure, I'd have made the same money by selling grain outright. This doesn't seem right because that would make pigs just a tick above useless. So, hopefully someone will crunch the numbers to make sure.
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kahfs
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Re: Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Post by kahfs »

I'm currently testing a script that will allow players to scale some animal parameters (feed, water, straw, manure, slurry, milk, pallets). So let me ask for your opinion on a workaround for pigs.
I would have liked to scale pig birth rate by 12, so I get 12 pigs in 4 months per sow. This is not possible. I can, however, reduce the gestation duration from 4 to 1 month. This will give me 4 pigs per sow in a 4 month period. I'm still down be a factor of 3, as I would have liked to have 12 piglets in that time frame. So the economy is still not realistic.

To fix the economy, my solution was to scale the parameter for young pigs by a factor of 3. Each piglet eats for three, shits for 3, use straw for 3, and sells at a price for 3. This is make believe, but the best I can do with what I have. Let me know if this an acceptable approach.

Another issue.

In the vanilla game, cows start producing milk when they are 12 months old. In real life, they start producing milk, when they have had their first calf. In the game this happens when they are 29 months old.

In the script I'm working on, I change the lactation to start, when the cow is 29 month old. This requires such a long wait. Will you accept this long wait to achieve more realism?
K. Henneberg/ArmChairFarming. Author of RealLifeNumbers (FS19, FS22)
Seedy
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Re: Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Post by Seedy »

FarmCatJenkins wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:40 pm I agree with kahfs. Pig reproduction being a 1:1 ratio is a bit sad, as the only real way to make money on pigs is to sell offspring. Realismus made them in 19 so you could make a killing off of pigs.
All the animals (that reproduce) seem to only have one per period, the different "breeds" are simply a paint job. :(
I definitely liked the FS19 setup once the seasons mod came out, that was really engaging.
Vim Razz
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Re: Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Post by Vim Razz »

Seedy wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:07 pm So, has anyone actually done the numbers for how much a pig eats over how much it gains in value etc.? It seems obvious that you can sell whatever you grow for more than pig food costs, so you can base cost of feed on a fixed number, and the price you get for a pig at a certain age appears to be fixed.
They eat 90 food and increase in value by $25 per month (at max health). If you use store-bought pig food, you will lose $65 per month per pig. Even on hard econ and using the cheapest feed options, growing your own food still costs $35 (avg prices) to $45 (130% sell point) compared to selling the crop itself, so you're still losing $10-$20 per month per pig.

There is potentially an exploit, given the way animal breeding works in FS22, where you could simply not feed the pigs at all until the last few months before sale to bring their health up to 100%. I haven't bothered testing it, though, because even then you're only looking at up to ~$9,000 annual profit for a small pen or ~$63,000 annual profit for the largest pens. Chicken eggs (or greenhouses, even on auto-sell) are still a much better investments if you're just looking for raw money and don't mind feeling dirty.

Horses are a little better if you're playing "correctly" (that is: feeding every month), but the still only gain $128 in value for $25-$30 worth of food per month (hard econ, growing own food). That's up to ~$6,000 annual profits for the smallest pen (using the money needed to set them up to pay off a portion of your bank loan instead is still a better investment at that rate), or ~$21,600 per year for the largest barn, which is still pretty bad relative to the cost and the amount of time needed to ride horses.

Sheep are technically possible to breed for money too, but they take so long to reach their max wool production rate that you lose more money in lost wool production by raising them then you would have gained by keeping the mature sheep.

I haven't tried cows yet, but what I've read suggests that they aren't worth breeding for income without exploits either. (The exploit in question involves "flipping" them by buying cows at 0% health, feeding them for a month to get them up to 100% health, then reselling them immediately.) I've read more promising things about milk -> cheese production, but I haven't looked into those numbers myself yet.


imho, animal breeding needs a major adjustment to be worthwhile at all at this point. For example (some hypothetical brainstorming): something like a % bonus to total animal value each month based on their health until they reach peak maturity (36 months for most animals), like +10-20% (depending on the animal and it's feeding costs) for each month the animal is at 100% health or +2-4% for a month where the animal is only at 20% health, stacking up to a +360% or +720% bonus to current values if they're kept healthy until they reach full maturation and not flipped or sold early.
Seedy
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Re: Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Post by Seedy »

That's what I was afraid of. :(
bobh_slo
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Re: Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Post by bobh_slo »

For Pigs: add a Mini BioGas plant and process the slurry. Once you have a good supply of Manure start processing Manure as well. Works best if you allow pigs to max out on price then sell and buy the older pigs. Phase in original buying to smooth out income. (A trailer load per month is one way.) At least 2 "day" months allows better bio gas production as it matches pig slurry/manure production better. Manure Fix mod helps. Production Shed mod (part of MultiCropGreenhouses) is a good way to make supplies off of digestate. Money in black market products too, but too close to cheating for my play style.
Dim67
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Re: Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Post by Dim67 »

FarmCatJenkins wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:22 pm Grow your own food then. Simple solution.
You would still lose money, considering all the equipment you have to buy to grow their food. And then having to ride your horses twice a day, yeah no thanks.
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hun3
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Re: Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Post by hun3 »

I guess you have not owned a horse in real life...its an endless moneypit...you do it for the love of the animal.
NewHollandLegend
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Re: Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Post by NewHollandLegend »

It’s very possible to make a profit when you feed them from your own fields. 30 pigs can make you 150k in two years time, not to mention the extra income you can generate by selling your surplus of crops during that time. Not sure about horses because they seem very time consuming having to ride them all the time 😝 🍻
norfolk farmer
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Re: Not possible to make a profit on horses and pigs

Post by norfolk farmer »

Especially with the pigs this mod is useful as it bring back the reproduction of seasons from 19, no more one pig one offspring.

https://www.farming-simulator.com/mod.p ... tle=fs2022
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