Grass harvesting/planting

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cwattyeso
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Re: Grass harvesting/planting

Post by cwattyeso »

paul_c wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:40 pm
Does this mean you can cut (harvest) grass, and in the same month roll it, then the next month its ready to harvest again? Its not my experience, it always needs at least 2 months even if you grass roll instead of spray/spread fert conventionally.
For me in my experiences on the games default maps I have had numerous issues with Grass Fields that after Mowing/Harvesting do not return to Growing for several months after. This was particularly noticeable on fields where I had done Baling Contracts. The Grass never seemed to transition from Harvested back to Growing. So I started to use the Grasscare Roller because it's very function is to reset the Grass Field State back to Growing. So by using the roller straight after harvesting, I instantly get the field back into Growing State. Now whether it takes 1-2 or 3 months or whatever before it's ready to cut again I don't know as I've not really paid attention to that all that closely. I just wanted to get my grass growing again as quickly as possible after harvesting. I wanted to avoid the problem where I mowed grass and then 12 months later it still hadn't re-grown. With my method I am able to harvest fields 4 times a year, so am pretty happy with my method.
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dan1109
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Re: Grass harvesting/planting

Post by dan1109 »

paul_c wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:07 pm
dan1109 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:56 pm 0% fert? I've never seen a grass field like that. After I cut at 100% fert ready to harvest, to it goes to harvested at 50% fert. I then spray it same month (even though not in growing state yet) to get it back to 100%.
See viewtopic.php?f=963&t=187105

An example is fields 1 and 15 on Erlengrat. I have it on "hard" settings, don't know if this is significant or not. Frustratingly, a few of us have identified its not growing back due to 0% fert but nobody yet has said "do this, to make it grow and be ready to harvest". I'm plodding my way thru August and still have a few more jobs to do, then I can go into September (another busy month, will be a few days IRL to get thru). It might come good in Sept but I suspect it will be October before I know conclusively.
I have certainly seen grass not regrowing on AI fields...but never my own. Are you guys flipping fields? That would probably cause the problem, Giants anti-flip feature...
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Re: Grass harvesting/planting

Post by paul_c »

I don't think flipping is causing the issue. As I understand it, when the "system" owns the fields, 3 things can happen, if work is needed to be done: 1) it will be done automatically 2) a contract will be offered to do this, 3) it is omitted. However, that's to do with something needing doing to advance the growth (or harvest it) within the month.

What happens at the start of a new month is a new "growth cycle", where fields where things are good for advancing, will advance. This is uniform across all fields.

The issue with the not growing in year 2 of grass fields, seems to be because after its cut in year 1, it doesn't advance to the next state. I tried applying fert (it was 0%) but that did nothing. So I've advanced Aug-Sept now, and just rented a roller - this has advanced it from not having a growth: state to growth: growing. Whether I could have done this in Aug, I don't know. But it seems to have fixed the issue. We will have to wait until October for proof though, only once its "ready to harvest" etc.
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Re: Grass harvesting/planting

Post by dan1109 »

paul_c wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:20 pm I don't think flipping is causing the issue. As I understand it, when the "system" owns the fields, 3 things can happen, if work is needed to be done: 1) it will be done automatically 2) a contract will be offered to do this, 3) it is omitted. However, that's to do with something needing doing to advance the growth (or harvest it) within the month.

What happens at the start of a new month is a new "growth cycle", where fields where things are good for advancing, will advance. This is uniform across all fields.

The issue with the not growing in year 2 of grass fields, seems to be because after its cut in year 1, it doesn't advance to the next state. I tried applying fert (it was 0%) but that did nothing. So I've advanced Aug-Sept now, and just rented a roller - this has advanced it from not having a growth: state to growth: growing. Whether I could have done this in Aug, I don't know. But it seems to have fixed the issue. We will have to wait until October for proof though, only once its "ready to harvest" etc.
so, you bought the field? replanting I assume would have also fixed it. I assume its an AI only issue for cutting grass during contracts. Would be interesting if you refuse the contracts to see if the AI will cut their on grass fields - probablt hasn't been witnessed by many..whp in their right mind would refuse a silage or hay contract during summer?
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Re: Grass harvesting/planting

Post by cwattyeso »

dan1109 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:40 pm
who in their right mind would refuse a silage or hay contract during summer?
[/quote]

People who don't want the frustration of the contracts getting stuck anywhere from 84%-96% complete despite having mowed the whole field and some of the surrounding area, done the other processes, done the baling, collected all the bales and delivered them all to the correct sellpoint only to find the game telling you that you are short. The number of times I've had to buy additional Hay or Silage Bales from the store to get these contracts to complete, means that now they just aren't worth doing until the after the next Game Patch/Update and hopefully Giants has fully addressed the contract issues. It doesn't of course help that Giants still don't allow us to fully empty out our balers and unload partial bales which we could sell and put towards the contract completion.
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paul_c
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Re: Grass harvesting/planting

Post by paul_c »

cwattyeso wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:52 pm
dan1109 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:40 pm
who in their right mind would refuse a silage or hay contract during summer?
People who don't want the frustration of the contracts getting stuck anywhere from 84%-96% complete despite having mowed the whole field and some of the surrounding area, done the other processes, done the baling, collected all the bales and delivered them all to the correct sellpoint only to find the game telling you that you are short. The number of times I've had to buy additional Hay or Silage Bales from the store to get these contracts to complete, means that now they just aren't worth doing until the after the next Game Patch/Update and hopefully Giants has fully addressed the contract issues. It doesn't of course help that Giants still don't allow us to fully empty out our balers and unload partial bales which we could sell and put towards the contract completion.
[/quote]

I had a harvest contract fail to complete ONCE, a long time ago - it was 0% fert or 50% fert or weedy or something like that. Since the patch (PC), I've never had a contract fail on too-low yield and always gotten quite a generous amount of left-overs. I believe what happened before was combinable fields where the yield was low off the field due to fert/weed/other, still had the contract set with the amount expected from a good yield - thus some weren't possible to complete. My interpretation of that situation is, you should have 1) checked the field was likely to be good at the outset, or 2) not neglected to do the contracts which had previously come up for fert/herb application. Like, an interpretation of the gameplay. But I know others just saw it as a bug. I NEVER saw one on a grass contract, and have completed plenty with 50% fert status so I think all is okay there unless you're doing something weird during mowing or windrowing???
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Re: Grass harvesting/planting

Post by cwattyeso »

Was playing on a Multiplayer Server this weekend on Elm Creek, did a Hay Baling Contract on Field 71 the big grass field. Mowed all the land we were allowed to so plenty outside the actual field, tedded and windrowed everything, baled everything, delivered all the bales and were stuck at 96% complete. Checked the baler and it was stuck with 97% Hay in it, but wouldn't let us unload it. Had to go to the store and it took buying 4 additional bales to get the contract to complete. So even if we could have unloaded the baler, we still would have needed to buy and sell 3 additional bales.

This is where the problem with contracts comes up, if you're saying that by not having previously done any of the contracts on that field for fertilising or weeding or ploughing and that effects the yield output on the field and then will cause the harvest/mowing contracts to fail, that clearly is an issue Giants need to fix. The AI needs to manage it's fields correctly and apply the correct effects to the field in the event of the player ignoring or not accepting a contract. So basically if there is a contract for fertilising on a field, if players ignore it or refuse to accept and do it, when that contract expires, the AI or Game should update that field to be fertilised as if the farmer had done it themselves in the end. Same goes for any other process that could effect yield. If we players refuse to accept and do weeding or spraying contracts, again at the point the contract expires, the game should update those fields as if the farmer had done them, so as not to effect yield for the future harvesting or mowing contracts.

I'll be quite honest in my gameplay I rarely undertake fertilising or spraying contracts, because usually I'm A) Busy doing my own fields and B) Refuse to buy and pay for product to use on someone else's fields out of my own pocket. I tend to stick to the Ploughing/Cultivating/Sowing/Harvesting/Baling Contracts, as they usually occur at times where I am looking for and needing something to do whilst waiting for my own fields to grow and they don't require purchase of additional products (with the exception of seed for sowing, but that doesn't work out too expensive as seeders tend to be quite efficient unless doing root crops)
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Re: Grass harvesting/planting

Post by paul_c »

As I said before, I believe they have already fixed it.
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Re: Grass harvesting/planting

Post by cwattyeso »

So why is it not working with the game and server fully updated?

In single player I am not having issues, but I'm guessing because I've edited and am using custom maps_fruittypes.xml where I have increased the yield per square meters for every crop by about 10-15% to compensate a bit for the fact the majority of the fields on Giants Base Maps are so tiny small and I want a bit more of a return for my work. However I know on the Dedicated Server it's using the Vanilla Files, which can't be accessed and edited as the hosting company provides no user access to the installation files. So for example when it comes to Grass in Single Player I am yielding 8.75 litres per square meter if everything is at 100%. I know the vanilla value is 3.28 litres per square meter. So in Single Player I definitely have more margin for error when it comes to baling contracts, as the fields are yielding over double the amount of grass. However on the server where I can't edit the values and files, there obviously is not as much margin for error if the AI is going to mess up the yield bonuses by not doing fertilising and weed removal.
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Re: Grass harvesting/planting

Post by paul_c »

I haven't tried multiplayer - someone else will have to chime in there.
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Re: Grass harvesting/planting

Post by Seedy »

paul_c wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:20 pm I don't think flipping is causing the issue. As I understand it, when the "system" owns the fields, 3 things can happen, if work is needed to be done: 1) it will be done automatically 2) a contract will be offered to do this, 3) it is omitted. However, that's to do with something needing doing to advance the growth (or harvest it) within the month.

What happens at the start of a new month is a new "growth cycle", where fields where things are good for advancing, will advance. This is uniform across all fields.

The issue with the not growing in year 2 of grass fields, seems to be because after its cut in year 1, it doesn't advance to the next state. I tried applying fert (it was 0%) but that did nothing. So I've advanced Aug-Sept now, and just rented a roller - this has advanced it from not having a growth: state to growth: growing. Whether I could have done this in Aug, I don't know. But it seems to have fixed the issue. We will have to wait until October for proof though, only once its "ready to harvest" etc.
I dunno, I bought a field to grow sorghum on, did that for a couple of harvests, then sold it back for some extra cash. I went another few cycles and eventually re-bought it. In the entire time (2+ years) the AI was in possession of the field they never did anything, no contracts, no crops, it stayed "harvested" the whole time.
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Re: Grass harvesting/planting

Post by paul_c »

Unfortunately, that doesn't in itself prove anything. If it were the case that the system did nothing on any of its fields (over say a reasonable timeframe), then it prove that something is amiss, ie it gets "stuck" at a particular growth stage and doesn't move on. But if other fields are being worked by the system, it might just be a combination of crop type (grass)/growth stage (after harvest). And its fixable in-game (by buying the field, then rolling to force it to move on, then selling again if needs be).
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Re: Grass harvesting/planting

Post by dan1109 »

well, I have no problems AT ALL for contracts since 1.2.0.0, however I don't do silage/hay contracts because a) grass fields are bugged on my map and wont grow b) the large grass field of Elm Creek is dwarfed by my own 3 merged fields, and since I have about 16 other fields merged into 4 large fields with other crops atm, no time for silage let alone a puny hay contract.

However I would maybe try it now - I just tested the CoursePlay bale wrapper feature, and it works extremely well for its first user test it wrapped ~60 or so bales with zero manual intervention, or course setup - just get it there and use a new mode - - I even tried autoloader bale collection with CP (technically not supported at all right now however, but its in the code), its got some issues though that are feature breaking. Mowing and baling however do work extremely well now on CP.
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Re: Grass harvesting/planting

Post by paul_c »

I've found an in-game workaround for (a)
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Re: Grass harvesting/planting

Post by NDDan »

cwattyeso wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:43 pm So why is it not working with the game and server fully updated?

In single player I am not having issues, but I'm guessing because I've edited and am using custom maps_fruittypes.xml where I have increased the yield per square meters for every crop by about 10-15% to compensate a bit for the fact the majority of the fields on Giants Base Maps are so tiny small and I want a bit more of a return for my work. However I know on the Dedicated Server it's using the Vanilla Files, which can't be accessed and edited as the hosting company provides no user access to the installation files. So for example when it comes to Grass in Single Player I am yielding 8.75 litres per square meter if everything is at 100%. I know the vanilla value is 3.28 litres per square meter. So in Single Player I definitely have more margin for error when it comes to baling contracts, as the fields are yielding over double the amount of grass. However on the server where I can't edit the values and files, there obviously is not as much margin for error if the AI is going to mess up the yield bonuses by not doing fertilising and weed removal.
For grass, the yield per square meter is 4.37 if you mow it, because the mower leaves it as a windrow. It’s another value in the xml file, just a few lines down. I suspect if you use a forage harvester with a direct cutter head, the 3.28 liters would apply.
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