yield decline precision farming

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alanarientiziech
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Re: yield decline precision farming

Post by alanarientiziech »

LittleWatt wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:00 am You are penalized for using a mechanical weeder. Any sensors used post planting need visible plant grown. This includes weeds. Stage one weeds says weeder. Stage two is hoe. Three is herbicide. Don’t use weeder or hoe. Those are not for PF. Use the See And Spray only after you see weeds. They will appear the month after you’ve planted your crop.

Not a bug. It’s part of Precision Farming that can completely throw a wrench in the works. You will see both the Field Info and PF info. Field info isn’t specific to PF, so be sure to use the Help guide in the map menu. The Help menu gives explicit instructions about using weeder, and fertilizing, and how the score is calculated. There are caveats, and trial and error are really the only solutions.

Even within this post two different people have reached the same goals two different ways. I’m following what the help menu says almost to the letter. Then adding in mulching and rolling, which aren’t in the Help menu, but Giants did say they both impact yield. I’m not using a cultivator of any kind. I don’t plow fields after the first plowing. I don’t have a mechanical weeder. I use the three point mounted crop sensor, and a slurry tank sensor. I use a direct drill with the fertilizer tank empty. I always wait until I see plants before weeding or apply second fertilizer. That is how I’m getting full yield every time, according to the info, and having an upper 90s Environmental Score.
hey dude, fine? I am not talking about enviromental score, I am talking about potential income (idk if this is the translation), as you can see in the screenshot, unarguably, the current income is 80%, and the potential is up to 89%, but my ph is perfect, my nitrogen is perfect (with the weird ISARIA SENSOR!), and the only penalty discribed is the NEED ROLLING, which doesnt rise 3% of the income... and every way you use to rip off the weeds have their impacts in the enviromental score, but SHOULDNT penalty in the income...

I've limed, sown another fields with barley and wheat, fertilized (not use the roof mounted crop sensor bcs was night, but that didnt impact yet), and rolled the field, the current income was near the max possible, then I've scaled the time to the next day.... the stage grown, the medium weeds poped up, and here we go again.... this time I tried the 3 possible things (hoe, spray and concentrated spray), the concentrated spray, that I've expected to have the best impact, worked like spray all the field (I hope you understand what I am saying), the income doesnt changed, but the hoe worked fine, the income rose to that the day before...

so this is what I've experienced here, thank you for your attention!
LittleWatt
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Re: yield decline precision farming

Post by LittleWatt »

Yes, your potential yield (80 of 89% or 123 of 125%) will be impacted by field prep. It could be weeds, lime, or fertilizer. Those percentages may or may not include the mulching (2.5%) and rolling (2.5%). I haven’t tested those two processes individually. Even if they were, it doesn’t account for your missing 9%. That being said, some aspects of PF won’t update until after harvesting. This is why the only way to be certain is to do your own testing. Pick one field and do everything the exact same way, recording all the numbers. I did this type of test regarding plowing after corn. In that test I found I lost 5% yield for not plowing after a corn harvest. This was independent on my PF field prep number ( 89 of 89 or 125 of 125, silty clay and loam respectively) where I had the maximum yield available across all soil sections in the field. So even though my PF field score was maxed, I still lost 5% of the yield from not plowing the field. This is still befuddling me as that 5% cannot be accurately accounted for. A field that needs plowed should penalize you 15%.

It entirely possible the 80 of 89% updates to 89% once you harvest. And you won’t know that without recording your own numbers. I actually learned to do my own testing from my thousands of hours of Skyrim. I learned the only way to be sure is to try it. Those lessons have translated to Farming Sim. Test, record; test, record. The only way to be sure. Listening to all of us on the internet may not solve anything. We all do it differently, and sometimes reach the same outcomes.
LittleWatt
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Re: yield decline precision farming

Post by LittleWatt »

I tried to find an answer to the missing 9%, and came up empty. Nothing in the improving yield options equals 9%. Nothing even comes close. I did notice something odd on a field of mine. It’s only a grass field. Never anything on it but grass. The field is broken down into 3 soil types: silty clay, loam, sandy loam. It has a perfect pH and nitrogen across the board for all soil types. The silty clay section shows a full 89% expected yield and 89% potential yield. But only 17.5 to/ha not 17.7 to/ha. Loam has 123 of 125% expected to potential yield with 24.4 of 24.6 to/ha. The sandy loam is 99 of 100% expected to potential with 19.5 to 19.7 to/ha. As you see those numbers don’t match up. There isn’t a 2% or 1% difference from 24.4 to 24.6 (0.991%) or 19.5 to 19.7 (0.989% this is close enough to say 1%) respectively. This begs the question: is my crop expected and potential yield related to the soil type? I can’t say for sure as I’ve never encountered a missing 9% as you have. Or a diminishing yield, for that matter.
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wheelmansteve
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Re: yield decline precision farming

Post by wheelmansteve »

Old fat guy with a day job...
MagicBoy
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Re: yield decline precision farming

Post by MagicBoy »

alanarientiziech wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:36 am I've found the problem: when the weeds begin to grow (on stage 1) spraying herbicide kill the weeds, but the weed penalty stay (even for spot & spray), weeders doesnt affected by this, maybe this is a bug?
Mechanically weed the field, then run a couple lengths over the weed free field with the spot sprayer. Hey presto ... no yield penalty and it gives the maximum environmental score.

Mildly broken, but Giants said it's working as intended. :mrgreen:
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alanarientiziech
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Re: yield decline precision farming

Post by alanarientiziech »

omg, my goal was to make the minimum work with the max speed possible, even I doesnt get the best EV score
I am going to do the Deerefarm tip, pass a pre-emergent spray with a normal sprayer (which I've missed), cultivate the field only if the seeder doesnt direct plant and go on

I've sent a report to giants that I am getting a penalty even with the spot spraying, and they asked me to send a video explaining it (which I wont do), so if anyone desires...

thank you guys, cya!
Illinois Farmer
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Re: yield decline precision farming

Post by Illinois Farmer »

You won't do the video for them but complain on here for days about it, sounds about right.
1300 acre farm, finish out just about 10,000 hogs a year, 200 cattle, and xbox one and pc user.
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RODHA
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Re: yield decline precision farming

Post by RODHA »

Illinois Farmer wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:18 pm You won't do the video for them but complain on here for days about it, sounds about right.
I have supplied them dozens of videos in FS17 and 19 for a lot of bugs they claim they couldn't replicate. Guess what happened? Nothing.
May be you need think that Giants might also be guilty here before judging others.
PS5 / FS22
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RODHA
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Re: yield decline precision farming

Post by RODHA »

alanarientiziech wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:58 pm omg, my goal was to make the minimum work with the max speed possible, even I doesnt get the best EV score
I am going to do the Deerefarm tip, pass a pre-emergent spray with a normal sprayer (which I've missed), cultivate the field only if the seeder doesnt direct plant and go on

I've sent a report to giants that I am getting a penalty even with the spot spraying, and they asked me to send a video explaining it (which I wont do), so if anyone desires...

thank you guys, cya!
I have been reading every comment in this topic till the begining. I just want to share what I do and what my experience is. May be it will help.

What I'm using as an example is a field that has been worked for previously. I'm saying this because a new field is always gonna yield differently till the PF algorythm gets what it needs to function properly.

- After every harvest I lime. Even though you don't need to lime before 3 harvest I still do because even the loss of lime is very small in every harvest it still affects the yield. That might be one of the reasons for your yield decrease. I tested this one myself.
- Mulch
- Slurry or manure. However, this is a tricky one. When you harvest there is some nitrogen left on the ground. And the variable spread rate with PF is anywhere between 50kg -80kg. Hence, you might end up over fertilizing the crop if you don't have the exact numbers for that crops nitrogen need on that particular soil. For example Soy Beans. They need 0 nitrogen. So the best time to put beans on the ground is after corn harvest as corn depletes all the nitrogen. However, I'm not sure if over fertilizing affects the yield in PF. Giants said that it does in the standard game but my testing showed me it doesn't in PF. Still though, I try to pay attention to this one.
- Seed or plant with a direct drill.
- Roll.
- At the first growth stage I use solid fertilizer with the isaria pro to top up the nitrogen need. If the slurry wasn't enough. The problem in here is if you don't or can't use the chemical fertilizer step with the crop sensor, PF kind of messes up a bit. You don't get yield decrease but you get environmental score decrease.
- At the first growth stage after applying the solid fertilizer I do the spraying with herbicide by using the spot spray function.

If all goes to plan I get %123 yield and %100 ES. I never get %125 in any map in any field and I still couldn't figure out that %2,5. %100 ES on the other hand depends on the field. I never get above %97 on normal maps like calsmden or haut beyleron but I managed to get it on wetern wilds. I think it is because you can turn a full plot to a field on a "build yourself" map like the western wilds.

That is my experience so far and I'm happy with it. There are times that things just act up and I don't care becuae it gives a different level of immersion to me. Like there are still things out of my control even if I do everything right. Just as in real life.
PS5 / FS22
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alanarientiziech
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Re: yield decline precision farming

Post by alanarientiziech »

RODHA wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:11 am I have been reading every comment in this topic till the begining. I just want to share what I do and what my experience is. May be it will help.


What I'm using as an example is a field that has been worked for previously. I'm saying this because a new field is always gonna yield differently till the PF algorythm gets what it needs to function properly.
Yeah, I've noticed that tho, the first harvest after you buy a new field isnt fully affect by PF

mulch is something I dont care, because I have 30+ ha to work, so the time I would spend to it wont worth (I am playing on haut beyleron, and can make profitable contracts meanwhile)
I limed every field after harvest
rolling aswell (as it is twice as fast as mulching with the very standard implement)
spot spraying or standard spraying doesnt change for me, after the weeds appear, I get a penalty and only with hoe to remove it, I am planing to do a pre-emergent herbicide spray, or cultivate with the giants bourgault big cultivator, since it wont left any weed behind

for sunflower, canola and potatoes, you must place a beehive next to the fields to get the maximum income

thank you for your attention!
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b101uk
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Re: yield decline precision farming

Post by b101uk »

whenever I use spot spraying of herbicide on the first growth stage 1 month after planting (1 day months), I end up with -8% yield penalty.

i.e. on loam with spot spraying of herbicide the yield ends up as 115% with an ES of 100 with wheat.
if I skip spot spraying and instead use a hoe to remove the weeds, the yield ends up as 123% with an ES of 92 with wheat.

due to rounding it is probably 115% and 122.5% in reality, as I don't roll, so that is 2.5% missing from the maximum 125%, and I know normal spraying of herbicide is -15% yield if crops have emerged, so I am guessing spot spraying is half that value of -7.5% on emerged crops.

At the moment an ES of 92 is still ~+13% ES bonus on selling, while 123% is ~+8% more crop to sell vs 115% or an extra ~1.3t/HA for wheat on loam.
plays FS15/FS17/FS19/FS22 on PC
:zunge:
LittleWatt
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Re: yield decline precision farming

Post by LittleWatt »

RODHA wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:11 am
alanarientiziech wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:58 pm omg, my goal was to make the minimum work with the max speed possible, even I doesnt get the best EV score
I am going to do the Deerefarm tip, pass a pre-emergent spray with a normal sprayer (which I've missed), cultivate the field only if the seeder doesnt direct plant and go on

I've sent a report to giants that I am getting a penalty even with the spot spraying, and they asked me to send a video explaining it (which I wont do), so if anyone desires...

thank you guys, cya!
I have been reading every comment in this topic till the begining. I just want to share what I do and what my experience is. May be it will help.

What I'm using as an example is a field that has been worked for previously. I'm saying this because a new field is always gonna yield differently till the PF algorythm gets what it needs to function properly.

- After every harvest I lime. Even though you don't need to lime before 3 harvest I still do because even the loss of lime is very small in every harvest it still affects the yield. That might be one of the reasons for your yield decrease. I tested this one myself.
- Mulch
- Slurry or manure. However, this is a tricky one. When you harvest there is some nitrogen left on the ground. And the variable spread rate with PF is anywhere between 50kg -80kg. Hence, you might end up over fertilizing the crop if you don't have the exact numbers for that crops nitrogen need on that particular soil. For example Soy Beans. They need 0 nitrogen. So the best time to put beans on the ground is after corn harvest as corn depletes all the nitrogen. However, I'm not sure if over fertilizing affects the yield in PF. Giants said that it does in the standard game but my testing showed me it doesn't in PF. Still though, I try to pay attention to this one.
- Seed or plant with a direct drill.
- Roll.
- At the first growth stage I use solid fertilizer with the isaria pro to top up the nitrogen need. If the slurry wasn't enough. The problem in here is if you don't or can't use the chemical fertilizer step with the crop sensor, PF kind of messes up a bit. You don't get yield decrease but you get environmental score decrease.
- At the first growth stage after applying the solid fertilizer I do the spraying with herbicide by using the spot spray function.

If all goes to plan I get %123 yield and %100 ES. I never get %125 in any map in any field and I still couldn't figure out that %2,5. %100 ES on the other hand depends on the field. I never get above %97 on normal maps like calsmden or haut beyleron but I managed to get it on wetern wilds. I think it is because you can turn a full plot to a field on a "build yourself" map like the western wilds.

That is my experience so far and I'm happy with it. There are times that things just act up and I don't care becuae it gives a different level of immersion to me. Like there are still things out of my control even if I do everything right. Just as in real life.
Keep trying on normal maps. I have 6 fields on Haut Beyleron. Two are 100, 2 are 99, 1 is 98, 1 is 97, which is the head scratcher as it’s only grass. Overall ES of 99.

I will have to check corn as my notes show 20 nitrogen left over. Wheat and canola are the only 2 I show depleting all nitrogen. Not saying you’re wrong, I just need to check my notes.

If you go over on nitrogen it shows on field info. You’ll see a Good score and something like 160/120. I struggled with this for a long time until I finally stopped using fertilizer in my seeder. Now, I’m never over.
LittleWatt
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Re: yield decline precision farming

Post by LittleWatt »

b101uk wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:23 pm whenever I use spot spraying of herbicide on the first growth stage 1 month after planting (1 day months), I end up with -8% yield penalty.

i.e. on loam with spot spraying of herbicide the yield ends up as 115% with an ES of 100 with wheat.
if I skip spot spraying and instead use a hoe to remove the weeds, the yield ends up as 123% with an ES of 92 with wheat.

due to rounding it is probably 115% and 122.5% in reality, as I don't roll, so that is 2.5% missing from the maximum 125%, and I know normal spraying of herbicide is -15% yield if crops have emerged, so I am guessing spot spraying is half that value of -7.5% on emerged crops.

At the moment an ES of 92 is still ~+13% ES bonus on selling, while 123% is ~+8% more crop to sell vs 115% or an extra ~1.3t/HA for wheat on loam.
I wondered about this after reading Giants yield notes. This is a huge problem Giants should address. If you use a mechanical weeder in PF, you’ll get dinged on ES. If you use a sprayer, you’ll get dinged up to 15% yield. It’s my feeling that anyone using PF shouldn’t be subjected to base game yield processes, only PF yield processes. All that being said, I’m always within the 1% of maximum yield according to PF, and I never use a mechanical weeder.

A 98 ES will get you 14% and anything above will give you max 15%. So you won’t have to be at 100ES to receive 15% bonus check.
Illinois Farmer
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Re: yield decline precision farming

Post by Illinois Farmer »

RODHA wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:55 am
I have supplied them dozens of videos in FS17 and 19 for a lot of bugs they claim they couldn't replicate. Guess what happened? Nothing.
May be you need think that Giants might also be guilty here before judging others.
At least you can say you tried vs just complain about it day after day and not take any action to at least try and get the issue resolved. Also the op didn't like a lot of the suggestions that were given, so no I don't feel sorry for the op in this matter.
1300 acre farm, finish out just about 10,000 hogs a year, 200 cattle, and xbox one and pc user.
LittleWatt
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Re: yield decline precision farming

Post by LittleWatt »

I sent a video to try an address this. Will it matter, can’t say. But I tried.
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