Biggest Map

snowball220
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Biggest Map

Post by snowball220 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:05 am

alright this is going to be a long shot. but i am looking to play on a HUGE MAP. with NO premade farms. only sell points and a shop.

im currently playing on ( HighPines ) so im looking for a map similar to this one with no premade farms. I like to build and place my own farms. roads can be placed. fields can be placed. although i have constructed need fields on high pines. but with my growing community. on my dedicated i want to push my 6 core xeon to the max. 32GB ram

if anyone has ANY idea of a map that i could give a shot. that is empty. other the fields - roads - sellpoints - shops. that would be ideal. thanks in advance.

Edit don_apple: topic moved from french to english forum.

Goose66
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Re: Biggest Map

Post by Goose66 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:46 am

Try Nowhere Kansas. 16X with a sell point, dealer.
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ace54858
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Re: Biggest Map

Post by ace54858 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:24 pm

i have heard there is to be a 64x map as i heard someone i watch stream talking about it but don't know if it is out yet but did find one called Wahpetor that's to be 64x

adammac5858
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Re: Biggest Map

Post by adammac5858 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:58 pm

I was curious about that Ace, I found a Wahpeton map, 16km. Looked pretty sweet, makes me wish I had a PC so I could just drive around and look at stuff haha! It has 583 fields........

Couldn't see from field dimension map if it had a premade farm or not, sorry. It was kind of a wonky site to navigate with mobile. Got a link if you want it.
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Chef93
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Re: Biggest Map

Post by Chef93 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:06 pm

Whapeton ND is a 64x map thats being worked on. If someone has a link for it, I'd love to see it.

Otherwise your looking at a 16x map. The most complete one I have found is Pleasant Valley Industries. Its Seasons ready and has had a ton of work done on it. You can find all mods related to Pleasant Valley at pvmods . com

Illinois Farmer
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Re: Biggest Map

Post by Illinois Farmer » Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:55 am

I think the 64x is a private map. The north dakota modding company has been working on it for a long time.
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aklein
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Re: Biggest Map

Post by aklein » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:09 pm

During my live streams of the 16X Nowhere Kansas map size came up alot so I want to interject a few general observations.

We have issues with folks refer to map sizes with things like 2X, or 4X or 16X or 64X. What is the x representing. The X would typically represent that the map is a multiple of something else. 2X would be twice as big as something, 4X would be 4 times as big as something, etc. Folks, including myself from time to time have refereed to base Giants maps as 2X. I thought this was the case because modern Giants maps where twice as large as maybe the first Giants maps back in FS09 or FS11 or FS13 days. But now I think it is an attempted shorthand of the overall width and height of a map. A standard giants map is setup to represent a 2KM x 2KM square of land area. This is often why true to life maps that represent a real area on a 1:1 scale often need to make sacrifices and add elements into the map that are not there in real life because the odds of having a farm store, at least one grain depot and a BGA all within 2KM of each other that includes farmland is going to be rather rare. Other times these real to life maps are scaled somewhat so maybe they are showing a 4KM x 4KM area but fields and such are about half the real size but at the heart a base map for which every other map should be measured against is 2KM x 2KM (1.2 sq miles) and should be our reference at 1X in size.

A 4X map would be two standard size maps wide and 2 standard size maps high at 4KM x 4KM so you can fit 4 standard 2KM x 2KM maps within its borders hence it is 4 times the size of a standard map or about 2.5 sq miles. It takes you twice as long to drive across the map either West to East or North to South if the map had a straight road. Also in the south east corner of the map the coordinates on the mini map should be around 4096x4096 at the extreme corner. On a standard map that same area would show 2048x2048 with the north west corner of both maps showing 0x0 or 1x1 if you could get into the corner.

A 16X map would be 16 times the size of a standard map or would be 4 standard size maps across and 4 standard size maps high so if you filled in the grid it would have the land mass of 16 standard maps. As defined it can also be described as being the land mass of 4 4x maps being 2 4X maps wide and 2 4X maps high. If you go to the south west of a 16X map it should have the coordinates of 8192x8192. It would be 8KM x 8KM on each side (5 square miles).

Now an utter massive 64X map would be the equivalent of 2 16X maps wide and 2 16X maps high or 8 standard maps wide and 8 standard maps tall and if you fill in the grid you would have a land mass of 64 standard maps. A map this size would represent a 16KM x 16Km square or if we convert this to miles for us american folks basically a 10 square mile area. The same south east corner of a 64X map would be 16384x16384.

The below part is a bit geeky math.

Once we have those things established we should reference what makes a map this large and the multiple layers that make up the basis of the map. we have already established the pixel size of each map's land area in the above by referencing the coordinates you see on the mini map.

At the heart the maps topography is made up of a dem layer. This dem later is 1/2 the pixel size of the map area so a standard size map that is 2048 X 2048 would have a dem layer of 1025 x 1025. Not sure why there is an extra pixel on each side but this is information I have gotten from a trusted mapper, this is basically a 1 megapixel image. To work out then the dem size for a 4X map it would be 2049 x 2049 or a 4.2 megapixel image, you can see these image layers start to grow rather fast. A 16X map would have a dem layer of 4097x4097 or 16.8 megapixel and the elusive 64X map would have a dem later of 8193 x 8193 or the equivalent of a 67 megapixel image.

The megapixel calculations are based upon this website - https://toolstud.io/photo/megapixel.php

In addition to the dem layer there is the weight file which is used to paint ground textures. This is part of the map that we can change when we use the landscape painting feature but its also where the map maker paints what should be forest floor, gravel, etc. These are the actual pixle sizes that match the coordinates you have on the mini map so a standard map would be 2048x2048, 4x would be 4096x4096, etc. For the sake of brevity I have listed the sizes and megapixel equivalent image size below.

Standard map- 2048x2048 - 4.19MP
4X map - 4096x4096 - 16.8MP
16X map - 8192x8192 - 67.1 MP
64x map - 16384x16384 - 268MP

In addition to the dem and weight layers there are gdm files, these files are where the foliage and other details like field ground, crop planting, etc is painted for the map. A typical map will have 5 of these gdm files named cultivator_density.gdm, fruit_density.gdm, tarrainDetailHeight_density.gdm, weed_density.gdm and forestGrassDark_density.gdm (based on a reference map I am looking at for this post).

These gdm layers are actually double the size of the land area so a properly sized gdm for a standard map is 4096x4096 which we have already established is 16.8 megapixel in size a 4X map would have properly sized gdm files at 8192x8192 (67 megapixel) 16x map 16384x16394 (remember from above a 16x map is just 8KM x 8KM square) which is actually a 268 megapixel image and the properly sized files for a 64X map would be 32768x32768 or the equivalent of a image that would be measured 1.07 gigapixles !!!!!!

Now I have not tried personally but I have been told that photoshop will blow serious chunks if it is asked to save a file that big let alone ask giants editor to import and convert the image into a gdm file.

So to that end I hold that a 64X map if it is based upon the above standard for measuring a map would be near impossible to create with proper sized texture files. We have seen on some other maps the outcome of having maps scaled incorrectly with not all of the various layers sized properly and the issues can depend on what the player can run into. It can be as simple as when your using an implement some amount of the ground to the left or right is changing with the implement even though the implement is clearly not that wide or a portion of where the implement is working does not change because the pixle size of the corresponding gdm files are to large because the file is being stretched to fit a space much larger than it was designed. It can be that when you are using the landscaping feature you have bad results of painting or raising and lowering the terrain but areas much larger than the brush size are being changed, again the corresponding layer's pixel density is to low and is being stretched out over to large of an area. Think about taking a photo with your phone camera and zooming in beyond the zoom ability of the lens and then telling the camera to do a digital zoom. The whole image starts to get blocky as the pixels are enlarged to fit the requested zoom level.

I would say based on the limits of giants editor and the game engine itself that a 16x map is the largest map size possible with everything properly scaled. In my own testing of 16x maps I found gameplay to be full of microstudders and landscaping to be difficult due to a slight lag introduced by the game engine working to modify the various underlying map layers at that large of file size. This was on a system I would consider far from underpowered.

I am currently using an AMD 3900X (12 core 24 thread) CPU with 32GB of 3400 DDR4 memory coupled with a 2080 super with the game running on a M.2 NVME drive. The game does tax the CPU or the memory even with a 16X map loaded and the frames are at a smooth 60FPS locked until you drop a machine in the ground then frames drop slightly again I feel this is because the game engine was just not designed to work with the underlying map layers scaled up so much higher than it was intended.

If you have gotten this far in reading this then congratulations your probably in the 1%.

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Re: Biggest Map

Post by juf.de » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:21 pm

That's some great information you gathered here and shared with us, thanks.
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Re: Biggest Map

Post by FarmCatJenkins » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:26 pm

aklein wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:09 pm
photoshop will blow serious chunks if it is asked to save a file that big
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aklein
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Re: Biggest Map

Post by aklein » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:34 pm

Fairly low bar given we are just 6 days in. Hope someone tops that by the end of the year for you.

Illinois Farmer
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Re: Biggest Map

Post by Illinois Farmer » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:23 pm

That's good information farmer Klein, but the author claims it is 64x, but no idea to believe it is actual.
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DirectCedar
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Re: Biggest Map

Post by DirectCedar » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:34 pm

Thank you for this post Farmer Klein. This is very interesting. I did not know anything about the pixel layers. I guess I'm in the 1%.

Chef93
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Re: Biggest Map

Post by Chef93 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:42 am

Well the group working on the 64x is North Dakota Modding & Mapping on FB. It seems that either FK or his map making friend are basically saying that a 64x map is impossible, while ND Modding has been saying that they have been working on it for quite awhile (I have been following their page for quite awhile). It would be nice if there was some way to solve the discrepancy.

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aklein
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Re: Biggest Map

Post by aklein » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:04 pm

I wouldnt say we are calling it out as impossible just more like improbable. A map with the land area might be possible with undersized map layers stretched to fit the space but as outlined you would have odd behavior with field work, landscape painting and raising or lowering the ground as a result. In 17 we saw maps where you could only ted hay in one direction on a field as a result of this as another example.

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Re: Biggest Map

Post by george.earlslight » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:07 am

Great info from FK in this post.
I wonder if Giants ever upload a bigger map in modhub.

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